Buyer opens dispute in PayPal after Ebay closes in my (seller) favor, now what

[slee56]

Under my selling ID, Chinese-based buyer had item shipped to freight forwarding company in California-- company took delivery of it 12/27/16. Buyer open INAD claiming items are damaged on 1/11/17. I called Ebay, they opened case and closed in my favor due to involvement of 3rd party shipping. 

Not surprisingly, 1 week later I wake up to a dispute through PayPal for INAD, once again claiming damage with the statement "I even told you to package good" Ah well I did but that's besides the point I know...

I called PayPal thinking they would open then close a case, finding in my favor also due to 3rd party shipping. But -- CSR said she took notes and released the funds and that I could either escalate for a PayPal decision or wait to see if buyer escalates and if not, this closes on 2/6/17.

I was leery to escalate without a rep stating it would close in my favor -- like how it happened in Ebay.  But, perhaps PayPal handles escalations differently, that they cannot open/close the same?  She also told me that if buyer escalates that I can appeal...

Not sure if I have an informed CSR here and everything she is telling me is valid...?... Would truly appreciate guidance from those who have had similar experiences with PayPal, this is my first PayPay-based dispute, THANK YOU!!

[anne4755]

Not that long ago, if a case was decided and settled in eBay it could not be resolved a second time in Paypal. I don't know if this policy still stands as it seems things change here frequently.

[bubbleman2010]

Odds are god they'll refund the buyer and allow them to keep the merchandise and tell you you'll need to work out some kind of return with the buyer..

[d-k_treasures]

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@anne4755 wrote:

Not that long ago, if a case was decided and settled in eBay it could not be resolved a second time in Paypal. I don't know if this policy still stands as it seems things change here frequently.

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That was changed a while ago.

And paypal eliminated the reshipper protection also.

So the only thing to do is say 'return for refund'. The buyer pays return shipping in a PP claim.

[bubbleman2010]

You can figure a buyer has 3 shots ebay - paypal and CC chargeback you might win the ebay one second shot you stand about a 30% chance of winning and last one you will get drilled and paypal will charge you a additional $20.00 just to add a little salt to the wound...

[baggs-2024]

I just checked with paypal on this and they supposedly have the same policy as ebay.  Will look for it.  Was something like that as long as you can prove delivery to the address submitted with payment, you are done.  SNAD is a whole nuther ballgame.  You cannot win a SNAD on paypal.

[rainbowcolorz]

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@slee56 wrote:

Under my selling ID, Chinese-based buyer had item shipped to freight forwarding company in California-- company took delivery of it 12/27/16. Buyer open INAD claiming items are damaged on 1/11/17. I called Ebay, they opened case and closed in my favor due to involvement of 3rd party shipping. 

Not surprisingly, 1 week later I wake up to a dispute through PayPal for INAD, once again claiming damage with the statement "I even told you to package good" Ah well I did but that's besides the point I know...

I called PayPal thinking they would open then close a case, finding in my favor also due to 3rd party shipping. But -- CSR said she took notes and released the funds and that I could either escalate for a PayPal decision or wait to see if buyer escalates and if not, this closes on 2/6/17.

I was leery to escalate without a rep stating it would close in my favor -- like how it happened in Ebay.  But, perhaps PayPal handles escalations differently, that they cannot open/close the same?  She also told me that if buyer escalates that I can appeal...

Not sure if I have an informed CSR here and everything she is telling me is valid...?... Would truly appreciate guidance from those who have had similar experiences with PayPal, this is my first PayPay-based dispute, THANK YOU!!

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Wow.  This is horrible!!!  I don't know if it's possible for every sale, but what I do when / if I am concerned about an item I shipped out to a Buyer is, I go to usps.com and request "all tracking info from this point" to be sent to my email.   I have done this for quite a few items which I have saved in a folder with the buyers User ID.  But for high volume sellers, I don't think it's possible.   For expensive items (mine are not very expensive) I would definitely do this.  

[echo_and_zip]

In your PayPal, there should be the initial "hold" when Buyer opened a claim w/ eBay. Then, when eBay case is closed, they release your funds. Now, the Buyer has opened the Case w/ PayPal, there should be a new "hold. If this is correct, call PayPal and ask them to look at the earlier Transaction (where case was opened/closed). PayPal can & will verify no eBay buyer protection. Usually, they CLOSE it on that info., BUT you have a CASE opened already. So, now, IF the Buyer "wins" on PayPal, they must RETURN on THEIR cost, AND, upload Tracking. IF they don't, your money gets released again.

[slee56]

There is no case open currently, just a 'dispute' as I understand it. Any funds that were held were released by the PayPal rep while I was on the phone. So should I call again and see what a different rep says?

At worst case, if buyer escalates and/or I escalate and a decision is found in favor of buyer, does buyer still have to pay for return shipping before refund?

Oh, and does PayPal open/close like Ebay (where they tell you ahead of doing so what will happen, as they did for me) or truly does it get decided 'later'?

Just am sooo irritated because I even packaged extra sound because I knew it would be shipped by freight forwarding. And there had been another interested buyer from same country a couple days prior begging me to separate the 2 items into 2 separate listings because she only wanted one. Hmmm....

THANK YOU!

[slee56]

Are you saying that I can't win regardless of whether a 3rd party shipper was involved since they are stating NAD? Or that would be the case for non 3rd-party shipping involvements? Thanks 🙂

[slee56]

Irritating!

[slee56]

How would I get to that point though? By escalating myself? If PayPal wants to pay the buyer I am ok with that I suppose vs. me paying... I don't want to pay for something broken being shipped to me from China either, buyer probably knows that so is talking the talk 'if you want it back then you pay the return shipping'. She has also claimed she sent me photos but did not, and I don't think they make a difference anyway...

[papermoneyforme]

With Paypal the buyer always pays return shipping for a claim if you state return for refund

[baggs-2024]

Yes, paypal states on their page that proof of delivery only includes showing to the address on the transaction details page.  So they do not cover INR for forwarded items, BUT they state that they have no seller coverage for SNAD claims.  They usually insist upon the item being returned and that is the buyer's responsibility to return with online viewable proof of delivery back to you before they issue a refund.  An international return with online tracking can get expensive.

Establishing proof of delivery or proof of shipment (for INR claim) The following is required as:

Proof of shipment

Proof of delivery

Online or physical documentation from a shipping company that includes:

• Date of shipment
• An address for the recipient that matches the shipping address on the Transaction Details page
• An address for the recipient showing at least the city/state, city/country, or zip/postal code (or international equivalent).

Online or physical documentation from a shipping company that includes:

• Date of delivery and ‘delivered’ status
• An address for the recipient that matches the shipping address on the Transaction Details page
• An address for the recipient showing at least the city/state, city/country, or zip/postal code (or international equivalent).
• Signature confirmation, if the full amount of the payment including shipping and taxes exceeds a fixed amount (based on the currency of the payment) from the signature confirmation threshold table below. Signature confirmation is online documentation, viewable at the shipping company’s website, indicating that the item was signed for.

[d-k_treasures]

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@papermoneyforme wrote:

With Paypal the buyer always pays return shipping for a claim if you state return for refund

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Yeah, well, its coming back from a buyer in china, so all they need to do is use their gov't subsidized shipping .... 

Of course, if it's something they can copy to make cheaper and sell it here, the least they could do is keep the item and not send it back after they figured out how to do that.