Big Ticket Items Seller Dispute ($6000)

[themagicones]

I'm a longtime Ebay seller but have never had to go through a dispute before and I'm super nervous. I know I did everything right and have tons of ammunition but I've heard horror stories in the past. So here's the deal. I sold an ebay user with low feedback a $6000 computer (). He broke it. How do I know? I was talked into travelling to him (a $200 expense on my end) to see if I could fix it. Before testing it out he completely deconstructed it and reassembled it (this with, he admits it, 0 experience) onto a frame he welded in his garage. He has said that it quite literally caught on fire. He tried doing the same thing again and caught another replacement part on fire. I have built over 100 of these and have never even come close to setting one on fire. The frame he built for it was lackluster and had sawdust all over it. I actually snapped a picture just in case it may help my case. I spoke with an ebay rep on the phone and they said even though I say in my item description NO RETURNS that the customer can still return the product pretty much at any time if he deems it defective. I am just sick with worry. He has now had possession of it for three weeks.

Anways, he wants a refund. I obviously can't give that to him because I'll be getting back broken equipment. To prove my "case" I have computer generated logs created showing that it was working at ship date, a minute video showing it was working at ship date discussing where and who it was sold to, and two weeks of successful usage recorded online with very little downtime. I got shipping insurance, have sold these before with no issues, and have a great, high-feedback sellers account. I also recorded our entire hour-long discussion and troubleshooting session today where he says multiple times he has no experience, did not follow the instructions manual, and it caught fire. Though this was done in stealth mode so I'm not sure if I can use it. 

Is there anything else I can do? What are my odds in not having to fork over the $6000 and get back a pile of charred computer components?

I appreciate the help!

D

[slati_2013]

He has to return it in exactly the same condition you sent it to him to get a refund. Do you have the messages from him via eBay messaging admitting what he did when he got the item? If yes, you should win this case. 

[themagicones]

 It would be pretty much impossible for him to return it in the condition I shipped it in at this point. Especially since I have pictures of what he's done with it. I have a few messages that hit on him having completely disasembled and not knowing how to plug the machine back in and get it running. Obviously inept at computer tech issues. 

This is the first message he sent when he started having issues:

"Ok we have a stand built and trying to put it together, how do we know which one is the main one to plug into to the monitor for displaying?"

This indicates he totally disasembled it because it came assembled.

And that is absolutely wonderful to hear! Thank you so much for at least temporarily calming my worst fears!

[emerald1830]

I believe he can dispute it with Paypal...so it all depends now on what he does..someone can chime in and give more detail..but with Paypal he has to pay to return it..

[emerald1830]

""Ok we have a stand built and trying to put it together, how do we know which one is the main one to plug into to the monitor for displaying?"

The only way to test the unit is to assemble it..do you have a message that states he has completely taken it apart? That statement won't be enough..

[mikeystoyz]

He cant say not as described because he took it apart.  I think you are going to win what that.  He can not return it in the condition he was sent it with.  It is destroyed, he destroyed it, you have proof he destroyed it.  If he gets refunded sue him.  Heck, I would even file a police report potentially and file mail fraud as he will be sending a different item through the mail to you which is mail fraud.  That is just me being mean, but at 6k with which he destroyed, admits he destroyed and wants to return because it doesnt work.  That is fraud to me.  This all needs to be in writing by him of course.

[slati_2013]

Not only that, but OP has stated he has pictures. The buyer did not have to take it apart to test it. 

[slati_2013]

Dispute on what grounds? That he damaged the item after taking it apart and wants to return it now that it is damaged? That is not covered by PayPal. 

[themagicones]

The item was shipped assembled and he is asking how to reassemble it after he disasembled it. There was absolutely no need to disasemble and it was left intact to make his life, not mine easier and in order to be "plug-and-play" within less than 10 minutes as advertised. I even produced a guide to get him up and running. So far he is the only customer that has ever had an issue with it and I have sold a few of these. He is also (to my knowledge) the only one who has taken it apart.

[themagicones]

Right -- I actually went today with the purpose of doing some "recon" and seeing what exactly was going on. So I have pictures of the machine 5 minutes before I boxed and shipped (running and not running), pictures of the new stand he has built and put the machine onto that is certainly not what I sent to him (captured today), and him on voice recording telling me he took it apart before testing it as it originally came to him (also stealth recorded today). I also have him telling me repeatedly that he "caught it on fire" along with the repairshop owner telling me he had never seen anything like that happen before and he was absolutely confused.

[themagicones]

I was already thinking about getting someone involved in order to be pre-emptive and maybe encourage him I mean business. I do however not want to irk the guy, he does have my address after all and doesn't live too far away.

What's great about modern computers is you can already tell what's wrong with them without even being able to get them to run. I have pictures of the motherboard before shipping with no error lights on and then I have pictures of the motherboard today with error lights on. I also purchased the shipping insurance but there is no way it was damaged during that so that leads to the fault being solely on him. I'm hoping ebay also gives me some brownie points for going the extra mile for this guy.

[*eponymous*]

The buyer can file a case with eBay and lose, file a dispute with PayPal and lose, and if he paid with a debit/credit card, then file a chargeback.  It is more likely than not that you will lose somewhere along the way - and maybe not get anything at all returned.

All those logs and recording (with or without permission from the buyer per state law, how does anyone else know who is speaking), etc.?  It isn't proof for a not as described case...and further, no one except you and the buyer know what happened when you went to the buyer's location.  It isn't a credibility thing - sellers are simply expected to 1) expect returns (and losses), and 2) accept returns regardless of whether the seller agrees that the item is SNAD, or thinks the buyer is untruthful, or anything else.

Ask for a high-value specialist for the eBay case.

[slati_2013]

People filing chargebacks don't always win. The OP has a very good case to win even a chargeback. You don't buy a car with a credit card, take it home, take it apart, mess up and and can't put it back together then file a chargeback with your debit/credit card company. It does not work that way.

You win chargebacks if you claim and prove your card was used without permission, you never received the item or the item was not what you ordered. If you paid for it, got what you wanted and then destroyed the item, chances are your are not getting your money back. OP has a compelling case to make to the credit card company to actually win. It does happen. Not all chrgebacks are successful. 

[robot-hands]

Pictures and video of you before shipping you can just delete. No one will look at them.

Now the picture of it disassembled in the buyers garage is another matter.

There is no case they can win ebay or paypal with that.

[d-k_treasures]

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@slati_2013wrote:

People filing chargebacks don't always win. The OP has a very good case to win even a chargeback. You don't buy a car with a credit card, take it home, take it apart, mess up and and can't put it back together then file a chargeback with your debit/credit card company. It does not work that way.

You win chargebacks if you claim and prove your card was used without permission, you never received the item or the item was not what you ordered. If you paid for it, got what you wanted and then destroyed the item, chances are your are not getting your money back. OP has a compelling case to make to the credit card company to actually win. It does happen. Not all chrgebacks are successful. 

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Unfortunately, the seller doesn't have access to the credit card company.