Any further Buyer recourse after receiving a partial refund?

[larkrise15]

I purchased a porcelain figurine that arrived with a chip out of one section. The listing photos did not show it, and the seller claimed that the item had no chips, cracks, repairs or damage that they could see. Stupidly I contacted the seller instead of immediately filing for a refund via Not As Described. After  11 days of back and forth communications I agreed to keep the item in consideration of a partial refund (1/3 of what I had paid for the item itself.) This was based on it having the chipped section.

The day after the seller issued the refund, as I was cleaning the item, I discovered that it also had been repaired. While waiting for the item to be delivered, I accidentally discovered that the same seller had supposedly sold this same item 4 years ago. I did question it and he told me that he had "cancelled that sale and decided to keep it." He claimed it had been in his home for the past 4 years. When he put it up for sale last month he used the exact same photos from 4 years ago. Those photos did not show the chip and also shows the now-repaired area in its original, proper, unrepaired condition. So the seller not only used photos taken years ago, before the item was repaired or damaged, but also claimed that it was not now repaired or damaged.

Am I still able to file a Not As Described return claim with eBay even though I have accepted a partial refund? No doubt the seller would say that I "agreed to keep the piece as is, in considerating of getting $100 back". But that was based on the only problem being that it had a chip in it. I did not realize at the time that it also had a (not good) repair.

Or am I stuck with it? All correspondence that we had about this item was done through the eBay messaging system even though a Return etc claim was not initiated by me. So eBay could see everything every step of the way. The seller has a ton of feedback (38K +) at 90something percent, and I have only bought less than a dozen items on eBay since signing up in 2016.  😞

[frodobagginskennedy]

If you have NEVER opened the item not as described case through e bay then YES you can open one now IF you are within the 30 day MBG from time of arrival.

Make sure you do not allow the seller to have to repay you the $100.00 already refunded as that would not be fair.

[larkrise15]

That is correct: I have not opened a Not As Described case with eBay as yet. I thought it was the right thing to do to give the seller a heads up first, which they request as part of their listing description. Luckily all the subsequent conversations are documented in the message system. After reviewing how the seller worded all of his messages, I can see that he was very careful to not say that the refund was "because of the chip". He kept asking me whether I was "willing to keep her as is" and "in the shape she is now" and "to give the item a good home" instead. In retrospect I can see that this must have been deliberate, because he never said anything like "in spite of the damage" or anything like that. He made sure to paint the partial refund solution in very broad strokes. Stupidly I did not realize this at the time. I thought that with all the positive feedback this seller has, that I was dealing with a person who was not trying to 'put one over' on a buyer. Of course I would not expect to receive back more than I originally paid. At this point the remaining amount is approximately $250. I do realize that I would be responsible for the cost of return shipment, should eBay decide on that, which will probably cost me about $50 because it was not originally packed in the way that it should have been for the kind of item that it is. But I would rather learn a $50 lesson than a $350 one, that's for sure. I have not left feedback for the seller yet either. I was going to wait until the refund was posted to my credit card (which is how I paid; I do not have a PayPal account, so they only acted as the payment processor) before doing so, which I have been told can take several days. So, at this moment there is no eBay case open and no feedback left by me. I did message the seller this morning to let him know that I discovered the repair that was not disclosed in his listing nor in the photos that he used in it, and that I am not happy with the situation. So he is aware that I am now aware of the true condition of the item. I did not mention going through eBay because I didn't know if I could, if I had accepted a partial refund in the interim. No response from him yet, and frankly I don't expect one. I am debating on whether to notify him that I am going to go through eBay, or just go ahead and do it. I have to say that this whole thing has been a nightmare. I realize that my ignorance has been partly at fault for not realizing that there were TWO things not as described (the chip and also the repair) but I also think that it was deceptive of the seller to post photos that did not show the CURRENT condition of the item but only as it was in May 2015. Not in September 2019 which was when he put it on eBay this time. That would be like me posting a picture of me from 10 years ago -- I don't look the same now as I did then, that's for sure! It seems extremely deceptive to me.

[thehonorabletrader]

You are absolutely protected. You have 30 days from the day the item arrived to file a return with eBay under the eBay Money Back Guarantee. The item arrived "Not as Described".

To protect yourself, follow these steps: 

1. Log into your eBay Account
2. Navigate to your Purchase History
3. Click on "Return This Item" next to the order (Blue Button)
4. Fill out the form for Not As Described

You'll be able to return it at no cost for a full refund. 

Cheers!

[larkrise15]

Even if I have already accepted it (according to the seller's messages) "as is, in consideration of getting a partial refund?" Of course the "as is" was before I discovered that it has a problem I was not previously aware of. If I file for a return, my understanding is that I would need to pay for sending it back to the seller (which in this case would probably cost $40 because the item is fragile and in a large box.) Is there any way to do it by going directly to an Item Not As Described Case, perhaps through the Resolution Center as someone has said in another thread here? At this stage I am afraid of doing something else "wrong" that the seller can pounce on and take advantage of. 😞 Because there is no way that the didn't know about both the damage AND the repaired section, and yet deliberately failed to disclose either in their listing. I would be okay with the partial refund if it only had the chip, but NOT now that I know that it also has a bad repair as well. 😞

[kensgiftshop]

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@larkrise15 wrote:
 If I file for a return, my understanding is that I would need to pay for sending it back to the seller (which in this case would probably cost $40 because the item is fragile and in a large box.)

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You don't want to file for a return, you want to file an INAD in the Resolution Center (bottom of page)

Select: I received an item that does not match the seller's description.

Seller will be required to pay return shipping.

[thehonorabletrader]

If you follow the instructions I posted above, it will create an Item Not as Described Return in the resolution center for you. You do not need to communicate further with the seller regarding this issue. You are still protected based on the information provided.

[7606dennis]

If the seller issued a partial refund through eBay and you accepted it, I don't believe you can come back and demand a full refund now.  Even if you could you would not be able to get a full refund and keep the item and the partial refund without being guilty of fraud.

I'm curious, if you found the damage (chip) and had the item in your possession that long, why would you not have inspected it closely and found the other damage before accepting the partial refund? 

[nh7235]

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@kensgiftshop wrote:

You don't want to file for a return, you want to file an INAD in the Resolution Center (bottom of page)

Select: I received an item that does not match the seller's description.

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A return request for any of the last 6 reasons on the list @kensgiftshop is a SNAD case: The Return button and the Resolution Center both lead to this same page.

Even when the seller @larkrise15 refunds a portion of you original payment for whatever motive e.g. overpayment of shipping, volume discount, a kickback, etc. you can still start a return request for a Not As Described reason before the deadline, then your seller must either

1. pay for return shipping and upon return delivery, refund

- the remaining amount, or

- a portion of the remaining amount,

2. refund the remaining amount, no return required, or

3. eBay will force the refund of the remaining amount, no return required.

[larkrise15]

dennis, those are both fair questions. First, I am not looking to keep the piece. I want to return it and get what I paid for: it.e., what was shown and described as a piece with NO damage OR repairs.  Yes, after much thought I was willing to keep it at the reduced price with a chip, but not with the newly discovered repair. The repair impacts its value more than the chip does. I might have bought it at the reduced price if the chip was the only issue. But not with a repair as well.

Second: I admit that I immediately focused on the "chip problem" and that was what I reported to the seller. A partial defense is that the piece was dirty but because the seller indicated he wanted to file a damage claim with UPS, I put the figurine on a side table and didn't touch it while waiting for UPS to contact me with instructions. Eleven days later they still had not done so,  and it was becoming a debacle. That was when I agreed to a partial refund in consideration of the chip. After that was put through, I began to finally clean the figurine and that is when I discovered the repaired area. I confess I was looking for breakage and, not being very familiar with this type of item, it didn't occur to me that there could be other problems.

[larkrise15]

Thank you so much for this, nh! "For whatever motive" seems to cover this situation. Just to be clear: Although I was willing to keep the item at a partial refund when I believed the chip was the only Not As Described, the discovery of the repaired area as well is what makes it no longer acceptable. The fact that the seller deliberately chose to use years-old listing photos instead of current ones (which I did not know until after buying this) also makes things seem very fishy.

[segar-6213]

Chipped AND dirty, and you were content with a partial? Bless your heart.

[myboardid]

You need to open a Not As Described case and then do NOT RESPOND to anything the seller says.  If he argues with you, or says he will refund but doesn't, or if he doesn't send you a return label, just keep quiet, NO RESPONSE until the time has passed and you can contact eBay and ask them to step in.  I believe that is 3 business days, but I'm not sure if that's the right amount of time.  LET EBAY handle him if he is being difficult.  In the case, ask for a full refund upon return, and don't mention the partial refund, as it will only complicate things.  eBay will see that he only owes you $250 plus the original shipping cost and will only force him to refund that much after he gets the item back. 

In the "reason for return" area you need to describe that it had been broken and repaired and that was not stated in the description.  That way he can't claim you sent him back a broken piece that you repaired yourself.  Or even if he does, eBay will take your side of the issue - they always take the buyer's side, which in your case, is good. 

[chatter231]

I agree with the "start a not as described" case in the return the item part.. But I do not agree with the , "do not respond to the seller" part. They can look at it as if you are trying to get something for nothing. Just start the case, explain what happened and that the item was dirty and that the damage was not noticeable until the dirt was cleaned off. If the seller responds, just stick to, I do not want to keep it because there was much more damage then what was previously known, or advertised, and that you want to ship it back. The seller will have to send you a label to ship it back at their cost. Then, if they want to work it out, work it out through the resolution center.. But the longer you put it off filing it, the closer you are at not being able to file the return.. You have already stated that it was sitting there for 11 days, plus.. so you are already probably already over half way past the time to file a claim.. a seller can try to stretch that out to past that 30 days, at which time, you will have no recourse. I have had that happen before and I learned that lesson the hard way. Luckily for me, it was a low cost item, but I learned to try with the seller first, and then if you do not get a reply within a few days, then just file a claim to be safe. That claim can be closed at any time, but better safe then sorry.

[myboardid]

chatter - the OP has already gone through communicating with the seller who gave her a very hard time about a partial refund the first time she contacted him.  this time she can avoid all the drama and just keep quiet, then if she gets no positive response (ie: a prepaid return label) she can go directly to eBay for assistance.  She should not get into a spat with this already argumentative seller.

I agree with you that she should start the Not As Described case immediately.