Floored: eBay won't do anything about restricted seller who opened multiple new accounts

[jacevoid]

I sell in a VERY competitive category. There's all sorts of shenanigans that usually go on, the most common being other people outright stealing my images and description text. Usually, I resolve those quickly by emailing the seller in question and then placing them on my BBL for safety's sake.

However, this last one just has me baffled by eBay's complete nonchalance regarding the multiple violations of this one tool. A little background. This guy apparently took it upon himself to start copying elements of, or just the whole listing title, my prices, and other parts of the look & feel of my listings. Like not just using the "sell one like this button", but stalking me around and copying all my listings and selling the same items.

I complained to eBay and of course they were super sympathetic and promised an investigation, but nothing happened (nor did I really expect them to do anything).  I even consulted an attorney about this as it's costing me a lot in sales. I do the work, including fighting off the OEM's in my category who of course don't third party sellers reselling their stuff, and others profit by stealing my listings.

But wait, someone who's crooked enough to piggyback on my work is also crooked enough to do other things, and as far as I can see, he got a 30 day or permanent selling restriction for copyright violations. Ok, good so far, I breathe a sigh of relief as this guy's probably out of my hair now.

But not so fast. He had a second account already in the wings and has transferred a lot of his old listings there. Same exact pictures, wording, everything. He has a slightly different location and he changed his user ID the same day the main account got the boot. Still happily selling to the tune of thousands a week. Probably using the same PP account and everything. I call eBay and point out that he is still there, operating under a different user ID. Every person I talk to says they will open an investigation. One even admits that the two accounts are the same person with the same personal info. Nothing gets done.

Now he has a third, brand new account. This is where it really takes the cake. He lists digital listings, for computer monitor backgrounds, bids on them HIMSELF with the older ID, and then exchanges feedback between the two accounts. Bear in mind that according to eBay CS, the accounts, including the third one, all have the same info. He's also doing something else he's been doing a long time, listing used items as brand new with "new" in the title while the item is obviously used from the pics.

Been reporting the new accounts for almost a month now, eBay says every time yes it's obvious these are violations, we'll get right on it. Right now, at the minimum (and eBay CS agents agreed with me on all of these), he's:

Circumventing listing/buying restrictions on one account by using other accounts

Feedback manipulation (one CS agent referred to it as straight up shill bidding)

Wrong location listed in one account
Search manipulation by listing new in title  and condition for used items

Selling digital items with no shipping in physical item category

Stealing from my listings (arguable violation, I suppose)

I guess I just wanted to vent. Am I not reporting this loser the right way? Something I missed? When I violate an ebay policy, no matter how minor, I seem to get an angry email from the eBay gods within the hour. This guy just floats on laughing and selling thousands a week while violating half a dozen policies at the same time. What the h@ck is going on???

[femmefan1946]

What he does is post listings on the new account ... as a auction, then bids on them ...and exchanges feedback.

So you are saying he is bidding on his own auctions.

Shilling is not only eBay illegal, it is actually illegal.

And he is doing it wrong.

To leave feedback, he has to win the auction.

Shillers don't want to win the auction.

They want someone else to win, at the highest price they can push.

Shillers are often identified when they retract bids.

When he wins his own auctions, not only does he not get paid, but he pays fees to eBay.

If you want eBay to step in, start using the word 'shilling'. They do take that seriously.

Since he is winning his own auctions,  he is not taking your customers.

If your prices are competitive, and your feedback is better, he may be stealing your bog-standard images* and your copy, which  is also pretty vanilla (but also professional--it's a critique not a criticism.)

Most of your listing is the standard Item Specifics and eBay catalogue.

This seems to be a tempest in a teapot. Didn't your lawyer mention anything about 'de minimis'?

*and there is a lot to be said for personalizing your images in that case, as suggested earlier. From my viewpoint, your images look like they came straight out of the catalogue. Do some 'branding'.

[chrysylys]

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@emerald40 wrote:

So you sell software that any other seller can have access to.

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'Pre-owned' software.  I'm not sure Adobe and the others allow that.

[jacevoid]

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@chrysylys wrote:

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@emerald40 wrote:

So you sell software that any other seller can have access to.

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'Pre-owned' software.  I'm not sure Adobe and the others allow that.

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With minor exceptions, it is indeed allowed, according to their own user agreements. Adobe and I had a confrontation over this and they lost. Like i said before, i did a lot of the legwork on ebay regarding keeping the dogs at bay. 

[emerald40]

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@patd3283 wrote:

Re:  Pictures

I don't know where you store your pictures but when I ran into a picture user, I ended my listings and substituted some ugly pictures (cow dung, etc) on the saved listings.  They showed up shortly on the other sellers listings.  When I was ready to relist, I put the original ones back.  Don't know if that would solve your picture problem...

Patd

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I remember back in the day when sellers hosted their own photos and someone tried to copy them.  They would change them to all kinds of things , like poop, vomit, I am a crook, etc.

There were some fun times back then.

[jonathankirkland]

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@emerald40 wrote:

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@patd3283 wrote:

Re:  Pictures

I don't know where you store your pictures but when I ran into a picture user, I ended my listings and substituted some ugly pictures (cow dung, etc) on the saved listings.  They showed up shortly on the other sellers listings.  When I was ready to relist, I put the original ones back.  Don't know if that would solve your picture problem...

Patd

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I remember back in the day when sellers hosted their own photos and someone tried to copy them.  They would change them to all kinds of things , like poop, vomit, I am a crook, etc.

There were some fun times back then.

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I like the ones I've seen recently which are just a picture of a donkey.

[tyler@ebay]

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@jacevoid wrote:

I sell in a VERY competitive category. There's all sorts of shenanigans that usually go on, the most common being other people outright stealing my images and description text. Usually, I resolve those quickly by emailing the seller in question and then placing them on my BBL for safety's sake.

However, this last one just has me baffled by eBay's complete nonchalance regarding the multiple violations of this one tool. A little background. This guy apparently took it upon himself to start copying elements of, or just the whole listing title, my prices, and other parts of the look & feel of my listings. Like not just using the "sell one like this button", but stalking me around and copying all my listings and selling the same items.

I complained to eBay and of course they were super sympathetic and promised an investigation, but nothing happened (nor did I really expect them to do anything).  I even consulted an attorney about this as it's costing me a lot in sales. I do the work, including fighting off the OEM's in my category who of course don't third party sellers reselling their stuff, and others profit by stealing my listings.

But wait, someone who's crooked enough to piggyback on my work is also crooked enough to do other things, and as far as I can see, he got a 30 day or permanent selling restriction for copyright violations. Ok, good so far, I breathe a sigh of relief as this guy's probably out of my hair now.

But not so fast. He had a second account already in the wings and has transferred a lot of his old listings there. Same exact pictures, wording, everything. He has a slightly different location and he changed his user ID the same day the main account got the boot. Still happily selling to the tune of thousands a week. Probably using the same PP account and everything. I call eBay and point out that he is still there, operating under a different user ID. Every person I talk to says they will open an investigation. One even admits that the two accounts are the same person with the same personal info. Nothing gets done.

Now he has a third, brand new account. This is where it really takes the cake. He lists digital listings, for computer monitor backgrounds, bids on them HIMSELF with the older ID, and then exchanges feedback between the two accounts. Bear in mind that according to eBay CS, the accounts, including the third one, all have the same info. He's also doing something else he's been doing a long time, listing used items as brand new with "new" in the title while the item is obviously used from the pics.

Been reporting the new accounts for almost a month now, eBay says every time yes it's obvious these are violations, we'll get right on it. Right now, at the minimum (and eBay CS agents agreed with me on all of these), he's:

Circumventing listing/buying restrictions on one account by using other accounts

Feedback manipulation (one CS agent referred to it as straight up shill bidding)

Wrong location listed in one account
Search manipulation by listing new in title  and condition for used items

Selling digital items with no shipping in physical item category

Stealing from my listings (arguable violation, I suppose)

I guess I just wanted to vent. Am I not reporting this loser the right way? Something I missed? When I violate an ebay policy, no matter how minor, I seem to get an angry email from the eBay gods within the hour. This guy just floats on laughing and selling thousands a week while violating half a dozen policies at the same time. What the h@ck is going on???

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Hi @jacevoid - thanks for the detail in what you've encountered. 

Using alternate accounts to circumvent a restriction or suspension is not something that is allowed. Additionally, manipulating the feedback system by making purchases from yourself from an alternate account to inflate feedback scores is not allowed either. 

Customer Service teammates should never be confirming details of another member's account with you.

I'll be reaching out to you directly for more information about the accounts you mention as well as the calls you've made to CS so we can provide proper coaching to the teammates involved. Please keep an eye out for my message shortly! 

[missjen831]

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@emerald40 wrote:

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@patd3283 wrote:

Re:  Pictures

I don't know where you store your pictures but when I ran into a picture user, I ended my listings and substituted some ugly pictures (cow dung, etc) on the saved listings.  They showed up shortly on the other sellers listings.  When I was ready to relist, I put the original ones back.  Don't know if that would solve your picture problem...

Patd

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I remember back in the day when sellers hosted their own photos and someone tried to copy them.  They would change them to all kinds of things , like poop, vomit, I am a crook, etc.

There were some fun times back then.

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Yes the good old days haha! Back when eBay was fun. 

[jacevoid]

Hello Tyler,

I tried to private message you but apparently you don't accept PM's. I replied directly to the email you sent, I am not sure if that will land in your inbox.

Thank you.

[ted_200]

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@jacevoid wrote:

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@ittybitnot wrote:

 is if there's anything I missed about this guy in regards to reporting him for his multiple violations which have nothing to do with copying me. Almost a month of his selling on two accounts that are cirmcumventing a selling restriction on his main account, feedback manipulation, search manipulation, eBay admits these things and yet no action as of now

I think you have answered your own question.    Ebay does not care and reporting is basically using your own time best suited for less stressful and more useful and pleasurable activities. 

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So I should just roll over and die, basically?

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I don't think that's the opinion of anyone here, it's just the reality that eBay leaves their sellers in.

They once had a thriving Trust & Safety operation, these days they mostly let bot driven "Seller Performance metrics" handle everything.  As a result, counterfeit items, stolen listings, arbitrage selling, are all on the upswing again.