Troublesome buyer & return request

[yankeesrule1234567890]

I'm dealing with a troublesome, inexperienced buyer that has requested a return, and I need advice. I do not feel obligated to comply in this instance. But, I'm keeping my account in mind too.

I recently posted a jacket for cheap-$40 (orginally $200) because of the wear, which is detailed in the description and in the photos. Because of its condition I specifically put "Sold as is, no returns." As with all my posts I wrote "USA only," not offering international shipping. A Canadian buyer made an offer so I declined stating I don't ship outside the US. Then they made another offer. I declined again with another similar message pointing to my description. Then they made a NEW account with a similar name, and bought it (somehow?) and sent me a message asking for an invoice. I said that while I don't ship internationally (for the third time), I would be willing in this case if they paid around $23 for Priority shipping. They did, and I thought they'd be happy.

A few days ago I got a return request, saying I did not mention all the wear, specifically the two stains and the tiny hole in front. However, the stains were photographed and mentioned in the description (saying that the last two photos showed them!). I didn't specify the tiny hole- either it was too small for me to notice when I did my thorough check, or she made it herself. Either way, I was very honest about the jacket not being in great condition, the price clearly reflected that, and I went out of my way to ship to someone who refused to honor my rules about it being sold as is and no international shipping. Everything is stated clearly in my post.

We've been messaging back and forth, and they aren't rude, but they are not understanding what I'm saying. I told them that in this case it isn't right for me to pay for shipping, but I will accept the return if they ship themselves. I also offered a $20 partial refund.

While I await a response, I have until Dec 1 to respond (tomorrow). Does that just mean to just contact the buyer or that it be settled by then? And what happens if it is not settled? Will eBay step in? I wouldn't mind that because I don't see how I am at fault, as explained above. I am an experienced seller and this is someone's brand new account.

Apolgize for the length, any advice appreciated. Thank you.

[flyerfandan999]

Send the reply below, don't communicate anymore with the Buyer.  If they open a case, you can fight back but be prepared to waste a lot of time on the phone with eBay CSRs.  The evidence is on your side.   If the Buyer gives you a Red Donut, don't take it lying down, reply to their feedback with the businesslike and factual "Imperfections clearly pointed out in pix and description."

Dear [Buyer]:

Thank you for your purchase of the Free City hoodie.

The hoodie was listed as "Pre-owned: An item that has been used or worn previously. See the seller’s listing for full details and description of any imperfections."  Imperfections were accurately described in the item's listing and positively pointed out in the accompanying pictures.  The hoodie listing was a no return listing. 

Based on the above facts, I have decided to decline your request for return and furthermore I rescind my offer of a partial refund of $20 made on [date].

Respectfully,

[You]

[yankeesrule1234567890]

Thank you- I wish I had come here first before responding multiple times to the seller's request and subsequent messages. I did mention what you wrote, just in a lengthier way each time. So, if this isn't settled by tomorrow- what happens? 

[sam9876]

eBay will probably rule in the buyer's favor and require you to send them money to pay for the return shipping.

eBay will then have you issue a full refund including the original shipping charge after the jacket is shipped back to you.

[yankeesrule1234567890]

Yikes, I hope that isn't the case but know that is the unfortunate cost of doing business on here. If the buyer does not respond again or take any further action, would that still happen? I have a feeling this inexperienced buyer is just not going to do anything while they hope it gets taken care of

[plumbingspecials]

First responder has it right.

In the future, never fall for the partial refund scam. It only encourages them to keep doing it.

This is not an inexperienced buyer. This is a scammer.

[yankeesrule1234567890]

I think you're right, Plumbingspecials, sometimes I can be naive.  This person ignored my "rules", started a bogus return request, used two different accounts to make offers/buy this, and ends every single message with "thank you kindly" and bad grammar... this makes sense for it to be a scammer.

NEW response from them: "Hi I understand the the listing stated used pre owned but you didn't mention the hole in front just the stains because of this I still feel that I would like to return the hoodie..... Thank You kindly"

Below this, eBay wrote "You should reply to the buyer and try to work things out by Dec 02, 2017. On that day, the buyer can ask us to step in and help." I will not respond further, unless it is more wise for me to call customer service now and try to nip this in the bud? Really don't want the person to get away with this or rip me off.

[yankeesrule1234567890]

On the other hand, they aren't taking my partial refund so it is possible this isn't a scammer. Regardless, they are incorrect. Also Flyerfandan999- how were you able to see my listing? (You mentioned free city hoodie). Are you able to see my description and photos and confirm that I am in the clear here, that eBay would side with me? Would like to make sure before this becomes a bigger case.

[sam9876]

They aren't accepting your offer on a partial refund because they know that they can get a full refund and probably get to keep the clothing.  After eBay finds in the buyer's favor, the buyer will tell you that it is going to cost around $30 to ship the clothing back to you.  Would you send them $30 to cover the shipping?

Anyone can see what you have sold by using eBay's advanced search.

[yankeesrule1234567890]

I see. I am going to wait until Dec 2 for the buyer to (most likely choose to) ask eBay to step in. I will not respond to them further. Their return request isn't justified. Will wait and see what happens, hopefully eBay sides with me immediately. Worst case scenario I will accept the return and send them a shipping label (which is more complicated too since this is an international order and their Mail systems are different). 

[yankeesrule1234567890]

If someone thinks it's better that I call eBay's customer service myself, tomorrow/ before Dec. 2, then please let me know. I worry that if they do ask eBay to step in that eBay will automatically make me send them the refund without getting my hoodie back. Does eBay do a legitimate case "review" before deciding, and do they EVER side with the seller? I wonder also- if the buyer does absolutely nothing form now on, meaning they don't ask eBay to step in after Dec 2, what happens then? Haven't gotten a clear answer on this but not sure if anyone knows for certain.

Appreciate all the help on here. I know it isn't a ton of money, but it is stressful especially because it's hard for me to look past injustice, letting people get away with things! These scammers/bad buyers need to be treated as appropriate. Thanks everyone.

[sweetdunks · Accepted solution]

If you have a return request, you have to respond to it.  If you let it time out and eBay steps in, they may (I have heard) tell the buyer to keep the item AND give a refund.  What was the reason stated in the return request?  If it was for not as described, sellers generally lose those.  And in this case, the buyer is pointing out one minor flaw not explicitly described (and maybe not present when sold) - probably to bolster their case, even though you could argue about how you described the wear and took adequate pictures.  eBay does NOT do a thorough review of these; they are very buyer-friendly. For those reasons, I think they will win their return request, unfortunately.  

So, my advice is to agree to the return, send the shipping label, and then report the buyer for creating an ID to get around your block (if that's what they did - can't remember exactly what you said.) . No matter what, put them on your block list, update your rules so nobody in a location you don't ship to can purchase, and/or if this happens again, cancel the sale with "problem with shipping address" to avoid the headache.  

Hopefully the jacket will sell again so you can recoup some of your money or perhaps break even at this point.

[sweetdunks]

Replying to my own post because I just saw on another post that for international returns, you can't send a label, so I think the buyer will have to pay for the return in this case if you accept it. At least I hope so! Hopefully someone with more experience with international returns will post. That just strengthens my suggestion to accept the return. Perhaps they won't return it after all if they have to lay out the funds to ship it back.

[yankeesrule1234567890]

Thanks sweetdunks. I've gone back and forth thinking all different scenarios through and your point makes the most sense. It's a shame that eBay defends their buyers more than sellers, but oh well. I'm going to do what you said. & I hope that is the case about international returns.. we'll find out.. I'll update on here whatever happens in case it helps someone else in the future. Really ridiculous situation but I'm lucky that I rarely have issues selling on here in general. 

Last question since everyone has been so helpful- Let's say I send the return money for it to be shipped back, but the buyer does not ship it back (or claims that they did but there is no proof of any kind), would I get my money back? I honestly feel like this person is just going to try to keep the money.

[yankeesrule1234567890]

Update: just started return process and it says "Make sure the label includes tracking, so you're protected in case the package gets lost." So, good to know eBay would (hopefully) have me covered if the buyer doesn't ship properly or at all. In regards to the label: There is an option for "Confirm you can't send a label" and the option under that is "I can't buy a label from a carrier in buyer's country."

"You should reimburse the buyer for any return shipping costs.Be sure to upload an image that shows proof you reimbursed the buyer. For example, this could be an image of a receipt or an email confirmation."