eBay

esdcah · ‎12-21-2018

Hello,

I purchased a used Fluke 79 Multimeter for $89.99 and $19.99 for the shipping. It's still in the process of being delivered. The auction has an eBay 14 day return policy.

What happened is I was on EEVBlog forum site discussing electronic repairs and also the Fluke 79 (recently puchased via buy-it-now) and was told for the type of electronic repairs I need to perform that the Fluke 79 doesn't have neccsary features. I would need for example a Fuke 87, which come in versions I though V. Many of the Version 1 and some of the II and II are less than what I paid for the Fluke 79 with shipping. Version V the most recent and popular version is more expensive than earlier versions and found one for $150.00 (shipping included). I needed to puchase a rubber protective case that Flukes usually come with for another $25.00 = $175.00 total.

Ok so I contacted the seller about returning the Fluke 79 (refund would be auction price excluding the $19.99 for shipping.) and he replied that he has overhead such as warehouse / storage and packing fees (apparently pays a person or persons to perform packing of items)

I told him that I may be willing to accept a partial refund to cover any seller expenses and fees.

He wrote back with a $40.00 refund offer then wrote again with a $60.00 refund offer. I wrote back stating after thinking it over that I would only accept a full refund minus shipping and that I couldn't be held responsible for a sellers busniness expenses.

I've been a eBay member as both a buyer and seller since the 1990s and have one hundred percent feedback. I told him as a seller I too have needed to pay addtional while selling items and for my self it's just the cost of doing business.

e.g. I've sold items where the eBay auction calculator was off by $25.00 (less) than actualy UPS shipping cost. (eBay's auction calculator isn't always very accurate) I just chocked it up as a sellers business expensive along with eBay and Paypal fees, packing material, fuel to deliver packages to drop off centers, etc. (UPS and Fedex are over 30 miles away, cost for a pickup is at least $12.00)

Anyway I'm wondering about eBay's 14 day return policy and if the seller has a choice to either refuse a return or make a return conditional for the provided reason such as changed mind, didn't need item, etc.

The USPS tracking shows the Fluke 79 was Delivered on Thursday, Dec 20, 2018 to my PO Box, which I haven't yet picked it up.

What I was planning on doing is to refuse delivery where upon USPS will return it back to the return address on the shipping label at not cost.

The seller when offered a partial refund of $60.00 did include a return address but I'm uncertain if it's the same as what's on the shipping label.

At this point in time I'm not able to ask eBay to step in until the 25th (next tuesday) as I've decided to let eBay make a decision about the return and item refund.

If not able to get a full refund (- minus shipping) I'll probably put the Fluke 79 up for auction as I already have an older Fluke 75 as a backup meter.

However I'm wondering what options does the seller have when there is an unconditional 14 day return for an auction? I don't see any conditions that are required to perform a return and refund. Such as for DOA, item not as described, etc.

As a seller If I don't want an item returned what I usually do is list it AS-IS / no returns or include a condtion returns only if DOA or not as described, etc. But even then I'm fairly resonable and will allow buyers to return items. I often have 30 and longer day returns and make it very easy for a buyer to return an item without worrying about the reason for the return. (which often are mulitple reaons)

sam9876 · ‎12-21-2018

If you return the item through eBay's return process, you will receive a refund of $89.99. You will have to pay for return shipping.

If you refuse the package, it voids eBay protection.

lacemaker3 · ‎12-21-2018

If you refuse delivery on the package, you will void your eBay Money Back Guarantee, and you won't be eligible for a refund for the item.

The listing says 14 day return shipping, buyer pays return shipping costs. You can't try to trick the system to get out of paying for the return shipping. You need to accept the package, and start a return request. eBay doesn't allow sellers to charge restocking fees any more. Sellers can't enforce conditions on a return either. If a listing says returns accepted, then eBay will accept the return for any reason or no reason at all.

If the package is refused, the return postage is not always free for the sender. Depending on the service that was used, USPS may return it postage due, and it may take a long time to be returned. Refused packages seem to be more likely to get lost, and may not be returned to the sender at all.

esdcah · ‎12-21-2018

Ok, thanks I didn't know about if a return via USPS, a refused package will void a return.

I've returned items in the past using this method. I've done this in the past with USPS, UPS and FedEx. Perhaps since they have added a new rule for returns. I'm not certain why it would make any difference packages all over the world are routinely not accepted and returned free of charge to the sender. This is true with commerical carriers and postal service in other countries around the world. Nobody trying to "cheat" the system or be dishonest it's just a shipping policy carried by most postal and commerical carriers around the world for many years.

UPS you can put an item on hold for pickup if not picked up in 5 business days UPS will return the item to sender free of charge.

Anyway I will ask eBay if I need to pay for the return postage by refusing delivery (uncertain of the reasoning behind it) and then if they say yes I'l use any provided postage label (amount deducted from paypal) to return the item, or creae and my own shipping label if none is provided.

I don't expect eBay sellers to pay for return shipping. If USPS, UPS, Fedex, etc. are willing to return items free of charge if an item is refused or just not picked u p when placed on hold, then I think this is a good thing not a bad thing that needs to be discouraged.

I've paid for return shipping many times however some business such as Amazon return shipping is provided by the seller at no cost. Which is sort of a common occurance as most of my Amazon returns a pre-paid shipping label was provided by Amazon. I guess they do such high volume shipping tha their able to get very good rates and offer free return shipping.

I think eBay seller can apply for return shipping rates if they do enough shipping? as USPS, UPS, FedEx have return shipping. I remember being offered return shipping from various carriers in the past, but seem to remember it only works out if you have a high enough shipping volume.

esdcah · ‎12-21-2018

Ok thanks I didn't know that. In the past this wasn't true as I've sent items back in the past via USPS, UPS and FedEx by refusing a shipment or placing an item on hold and and not picking it up.

UPS you don't necessarily need to refuse an item. If placed on hold for pickup and not picked up within 5 business days. UPS will return a package to the sender free of any shipping fees.

One requirement to return an item by refusing delivery is the packaged can't have been opened. I'm not certain of the reasoning behind this policy. How does eBay know how a package is being refused and sent back to the sender? The same tracking number is normally used, which I believe is sometimes entered or recorded into the return details.

What is the reasoning behind this policy? Has something to do with cheaters, people trying to commit fraud, etc?

buyselljack2016 · ‎12-21-2018

You should keep the item, and sell it yourself.

Yes, the seller has 14 day return, but you are choosing to punish the seller for YOUR mistake.

I suppose some would say it is just "the cost of doing business" for the seller.

salo1167 · ‎12-21-2018

@buyselljack2016 wrote:
You should keep the item, and sell it yourself.

Yes, the seller has 14 day return, but you are choosing to punish the seller for YOUR mistake.

I suppose some would say it is just "the cost of doing business" for the seller.

exactly my thoughts

esdcah · ‎12-21-2018

I'm not punishing the seller for my mistake. Billions of People all over the world are sending new and used items back for whatever reason.

It's common partially because we live in a society of planned obsolesce. Things are designed and manufactured to be replace and not repaired. Years ago most everything was manufactured to last a min. of 30 years.

Anyway I don't feel I made an error or mistake and passing it on to the seller. As I agreed to pay for any seller paypal and eBays auction fees most if not all of which the seller doesn't usually need to pay for when relisting.

The seller going to end up with the same item at not cost to them.

If you can't handle returns I would think perhaps about finding another line of work.

Some of the eBay sellers are very good but some seem to me be rather juvenile in many ways, I guess are still learning?

esdcah · ‎12-21-2018

Another thing is I don't think this item qualifies for eBay's money back guarrantee.

When does eBay Money Back Guarantee apply?

You're covered under eBay Money Back Guarantee when:

You don't receive an item
You receive an item that doesn't match the listing
You receive an item that's broken or faulty

However It does qualify for a 14 day return.

If you as a seller don't want an item returned or the hassel then don't offer a return.

buyselljack2016 · ‎12-21-2018

@esdcah wrote:
I'm not punishing the seller for my mistake. Billions of People all over the world are sending new and used items back for whatever reason.

It's common partially because we live in a society of planned obsolesce . Things are designed and manufactured to be replace and not repaired. Years ago most everything was manufactured to last a min. of 30 years.

Anyway I don't feel I made an error or mistake and passing it on to the seller. As I agreed to pay for any seller paypal and eBays auction fees most if not all of which the seller doesn't usually need to pay for when relisting.

The seller going to end up with the same item at not cost to them.

If you can't handle returns I would think perhaps about finding another line of work.

Some of the eBay sellers are very good but some seem to me be rather juvenile in many ways, I guess are still learning?

YOU purchased an item that will not meet YOUR needs.

I agree that the seller will not be out much, but that loss is completely on you.

The seller is out the original listing.

The seller is out the time that it will take to relist the item.

The seller will be out the time taken to pull from inventory/pack the item.

The seller will be out the time to get that item to the shipper.

The seller will be out the time it takes to deal with your return request.

The seller will be out the time it takes to unpackage, and inspect the returned item.

How does this equate to "at not cost to them". You are deciding how much the seller is out.

Everyone else is doing it (billions) so the responsibility for this all falls on the seller?

What does "planned obsolesce" have to do with this situation.

I take returns if it is "my fault", and at the buyer's expense when it is theirs. So I don't need to find another line of work.

As the seller has a return policy, you are within your rights to request a return with the seller refunding the initial cost of $89.99.

esdcah · ‎12-21-2018

I'm not perfect because I'm human. If humans didn't make mistakes we would not be human and not be able to exist as we would become extinct.

If the seller wanted to substract $10.00 from my refund I think that's reasonalble, however to take $40.00 to $60.00 around half of the cost of the item imo isn't reasonable.

I started working when I was 10 years old and had a full time job by the time I was 1 @ .99 cent / hour 40 hour work week and use to have my own lawn care business where I took care of over a dozen lawns by the time I turned 12/13. I've worked for every thing I've ever owned and learned the value of a dollar.

I'd be willing to subtract $10.00 from the refund if the seller hadn't been so unreasonable about a partial refund which by the way I instigated in the first place because I felt bad about needing to return the item. I dont know perhaps the Inernet has expanded so much all we are are user names and identification numbers.

buyselljack2016 · ‎12-21-2018

Your choice do do as you wish

I agree that only offering $40 for the return is out of line. $60 is still pushing the buyers buttons.

Too bad you and the seller could not come closer on the amount. As I posted, when the buyers fault, I do partial refunds reflecting my loss.

Depending upon the sellers fees, $10 may not cover the loses.

On a partial refund eBay FVF is not returned to the seller. At my seller rates, based on your purchase I would be out $9 FVF on the item, $2 FVF on the shipping, and $1.17 on PayPal fees. That factors in no other action/time expenditures by the seller.

And yes, all we are are user names and identification numbers.

sam9876 · ‎12-21-2018

In this case, the seller would only be out 30 cents on a return.

buyselljack2016 · ‎12-21-2018

@sam9876 wrote:
In this case, the seller would only be out 30 cents on a return.

Correct, if full selling price refund given.

30 cents and the time spent initally packing/shipping, then unpacking, and relisting.

Not a big deal for me as a one person show. Seller could be paying a worker.

Point was, on a partial (buyers suggestion) the loss to the seller is more than 30 cents. Certainly not $40-60, but still a loss.

Buyer was suggesting a partial which would be a loss to them. Then the return shipping cost for a remorse return. That could bring the buyers expense to a point that it might be better to just sell it even though they do, with the seller 14 day return policy, have the option to return.