There is NO such thing as No Returns on Ebay- corrected headline

[modern-artifact]

Well, after all these years (19) the returns policy is giving me heartburn... You see, all these clowns have learned how to game it.

(well really, ebay encourages returns and etc.) 

I had a guy bid 39 times on an item, win it and then decide to open a return claim stating that the item is fake (unauthentic). He also admitted his client didn't want it. (so of course it is now my problem) I put up 12 photos showing every surface in over 12 x12 inch photos. It is what it is- an antique marble. 

Nevertheless, this fellow decides the manufacturer is not as described despite my knowledge that it came with things from that manufacturer. And NOT the foreign source he claims. He even stated that my item was not right because he read it in a book. Um, how about applying that knowledge to viewing the GIANT PHOTOS and not bidding and screwing up my auction? (it also hurt the others who were actually interested in the item rather than the prospect of turning it for a quick profit)

To make matters worse he insists that I am ignorant and need to study more. I have 20 years in this field and 16 books that are all well read. 

Now in reading up, ebay will grant this bozo my item as a “fake” and charge me back. So, again we are forced to give a refund. This buyer stated that he knows ebay has his back. Hmm what do we read between those lines? eBAY IS ENABLING criminal buyers. 

OK, so this experience on top of last week's buyer who claimed NAD and got a return out of me even though ebay agreed that the item WAS AS DESCRIBED. I was advised over the phone to go ahead and accept that return and since the buyer agreed to cover shipping because she had made a mistake that I could then deduct the shipping from the refund WRONG! the system offers no ability to make any adjustment it only allows a 100% refund. 

I have had a policy for years that returns were only accepted if item was not as described… everybody happy, me the bidders everyone, never a problem. 

Geez, I never imagined the contortions folks would go through to claim NAD. Now I  also realize that a policy of not accepting returns is no protection at all from this non-sense because the good old "ebay money back guarantee" will force returns for NAD (which they recommend even if the listing shows otherwise)… Is there any functioning refuge from the insincere conniving scumbags that are wrecking it for everyone else? 

Ebay phone help has also misdirected me repeatedly. What I find most annoying is that even if I am right I am at the mercy of the buyer's remorse folk's pretzel logic NAD claims. (well that and the fact that there is no button to refuse a return request.) How about a bit of SELLER protection EBAY??? Instead you throw us to the dogs and the dogs learn all the tricks quickly.

And how about the bidder who bids an item up then wants to cancel the sale before paying? (because they bid $1150 instead of the "intended" $150? that's kind of hard to do with the confirmation step) How do we deal with that? Ebay Philippines urged me to cancel the sale. Now I am probably still vulnerable to negative feedback despite the sale being ruined by this person, and no money changing hands.

This is another simple scam... ensure the win and if it goes to high claim it was an accident. 

"one too many ones" Uh-huh. 

Two of these problem buyers are from the CA Bay Area... (where Ebay is) wonder if they are ebay shills punishing me for the zoom strike?

Ebay used to be a fun, friendly place to trade. There are still lots of great people, but now EBAY's policies are just making me cranky.

Oh, one more thing for you diehard readers... Why does EBAY give us the ability to adopt return and post our own policies on our listings? They then simply overide whatever our terms are. Quit with the facade already ebay! WE sellers have no control over any of this. 

HELP!

[*help_no_brakes*]

" HELP!"

With what? 

You're the one with 20 years experience & 16 books. 

I've only been here 13 years & don't got any books. 

However I understand & accept that not all transactions will go smoothly, some buyers are difficult & not everyone thinks like me.

I accept any & all returns which seems to work for me.

[modern-artifact]

Well that's dandy if you don't need sales to pay your bills. I have had 2 major items screwed up in the past 2 days by bidders with remorse but no regrets. How do we avoid this? I do everything I can to inform my buyers, and still they pull this non-sense (well most don't) but these two struck at inopportune times. The cavalier attitude of bidders who don't care if they are inconveniencing sellers or other bidders is galling. 

In the past most every sale went well, so I never became versed in defensive actions. How not to step in it. (like the time I gave a refund right away and was subjected to negative feedback because my refund "amounted to an admission of fault"  (ebay even concurred that the item was depicted properly and was as described, but...)  I am looking for a way to block out the uncertainty that comes with ebays policies. (yes, I have blocked the bidders in question) ... what is not apparent to me is what are MY rights and how do I go about defending my sale? 

Ebay has become so convoluted they need 16 departments in the help center because nobody in the company understands the entire system... Yet we sellers are expected to know it all.  Or Else!!!

[dakotasmoke]

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@modern-artifact wrote:

Oh, one more thing for you diehard readers... Why does EBAY give us the ability to adopt return and post our own policies on our listings? They then simply overide whatever our terms are. Quit with the facade already ebay! WE sellers have no control over any of this. 

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You are allowed to say no returns for items that are as described. Ive seen several folks post that they flat out rejected a buyers remorse return and it was perfectly OK.

However, if the buyer says the item isnt as described, you have to take the return. Look at it from the buyers point of view, would you want to get stuck with an item not as described with no recourse to return for a refund?

Yes, buyers often abuse this feature, but in all honesty, there are probably an equal number of sellers who fail to describe an item properly and then come here screaming about how unfair it is.

[modern-artifact]

Sure, lazy sellers set the stage, but it is tough when good hardworking sellers get dragged into the morass. I get it if you have a warehouse full of the same item in different colors and sizes. But those who sell one of a kind items are unduly harmed by the window shopping mentality the "money back guarantee" provokes.  

Perhaps you can explain- How do you reject the return? There is no toggle for that. Only the option to write to the buyer.  I may have been misled by ebay phone help, but they told me that even though the item clearly was as described (which they agreed) and my policy was "only if item is not as described" , I still had to take the return... "because you accept returns". My stated and written policy carried absolutely no weight. In hindsight I realize that the stated policy directly channeled wishywashy buyers into the place that EBAY totally forces: NAD returns.  I have since rewritten the return policy to avoid this pitfall. The other hang up is that the refund system has no flexibility... It's hardwired for 100% refund. What if the buyer agrees they messed up and agree to cover the shipping? Ebay offers no mechanisim for me to adjust the refund. (Even though ebay help told me that could be done).  For all the complexity of this system, (and I agree a lot of it works nicely), there are these glaring shortcomings that make the process much more difficult. 

[vintagecraze50]

I feel your pain. Always there will be folks you cannot please no matter what your item is , how you picture it, what you say in your description etc. We look at this dilemma as an issue that is unavoidable with online sales.  It's really like the luck of the draw with the luck being mostly on your side for the majority of transactions. We have a business plan that factors in all the losses that can happen selling online and adjust prices accordingly to make up fo the loss. We follow best practices to be clear what out buyers are getting, and we do risk assessment of certain items which should probably never be sold online. It is a cycle that businesses go through especially with the high risk of fraudulent chargebacks that online sellers have to face as well. They are constantly adjusting their business plans to accomodate whatever comes their way. Ecommerce has grown and has become a gigantic marketplace filled with wonderful buyers but also some great scam artists as well. You protect yourself as best as you can and there will always be times when you will take a hit. Hopefully not many and not big hits. Keep on truckin!

[mistwomandancing]

Sorry you're taking hits here. 

Listing with NO Returns in your TOS doesn't help as THAT only tells eBay that you don't necessarily want the item returned anyway, but the REFUND part of eBay's protection to buyers is still going to be granted to the buyer, so then who do you think is going to take the financial hit? 

I figured out several years ago that I was best off dealing in items that were the sort people only bought because they wanted THAT particular thing, but things that couldn't be confused with something else, or that 'didn't fit right' or all those reasons for returns, because when returns have to be paid for (of COURSE!!!) many will figure out how to scam it to their advantage.  

Hope your sales here go smoothly from here on... getting into the good selling season, so definitely want all our sales to STICK .

[fashunu4eeuh]

I haven't needed to issue a refund in a long time, but there should be a way to adjust the amount. If you log into paypal and pull up the payment, there is an options drop down. Once Refund is chosen out of the drop-down, at that point the amount will be auto-loaded for the total. Normally, you should be able to click on that amount and then input the corrected partial. Is this what you did and somehow you cannot click on the total?

[18704d]

" I may have been misled by ebay phone help, but they told me that even though the item clearly was as described (which they agreed) and my policy was "only if item is not as described" , I still had to take the return... "because you accept returns". My stated and written policy carried absolutely no weight."

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Yes, you were misled by eBay phone help.

Telephone CSR's can't tell it the item was As Described, or not.

It's possible a seller (I'm not talking about you in this situation) could post photos of an item,

but fradulently send a Different item to a buyer.

And your policy of "returns only if (you agree) item is not as described"

is Vastly Over Ruled by the Money Back Guarantee (buyer protection policy)

that says, eBay Will allow a return (at your expense) IF the buyer files a Claim stating

that it's NAD.

When they file that NAD claim, anything any everything in your Return Policy is trumped.

And eBay will refund them.

If sellers Agree to that return, and pay the return shipping (as per the User Agreement concerning NAD claims)

then the seller has a good chance of first getting his item returned before eBay generates the refund.

Try to deny, debate, or battle a NAD claim (even if you're actually "right" and a million CSR's agree),

then you're probably gonna lose your item and get a defect.

Lynn

[dakotasmoke]

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@modern-artifact wrote:

Sure, lazy sellers set the stage, but it is tough when good hardworking sellers get dragged into the morass. I get it if you have a warehouse full of the same item in different colors and sizes. But those who sell one of a kind items are unduly harmed by the window shopping mentality the "money back guarantee" provokes.  

Perhaps you can explain- How do you reject the return? There is no toggle for that. Only the option to write to the buyer.  I may have been misled by ebay phone help, but they told me that even though the item clearly was as described (which they agreed) and my policy was "only if item is not as described" , I still had to take the return... "because you accept returns". My stated and written policy carried absolutely no weight. In hindsight I realize that the stated policy directly channeled wishywashy buyers into the place that EBAY totally forces: NAD returns.  I have since rewritten the return policy to avoid this pitfall. The other hang up is that the refund system has no flexibility... It's hardwired for 100% refund. What if the buyer agrees they messed up and agree to cover the shipping? Ebay offers no mechanisim for me to adjust the refund. (Even though ebay help told me that could be done).  For all the complexity of this system, (and I agree a lot of it works nicely), there are these glaring shortcomings that make the process much more difficult. 

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It depends on the type of return, there is a button for it in buyers remorse returns, there isnt one for SNAD

[ersatz_sobriquet]

Ebay's new policy is seller pays for return shipping on "significantly not as buyer imagined it would be" and remorse, buyer just has to lie and say that the item isn't as seller described. 

Oh boy, and people will lie to get free shipping. Yes they sure will. 

So you decide if it's worth it to have these returns that you lose money on or not. I get them, I'm sure we all get them. It's standard practice now and conscience and honesty on the matter have gone the way of the dodo bird. 

I just relist the item, or, annoyed, wait to relist the item thinking about how to describe it to again sell it and the buyer won't be able to claim whatever bogus reason the first return was. Then move on down the line with other items. There's no point in dwelling on it. Ebay has got the buyer's back, truthful claim or lie, makes no difference. 

[modern-artifact]

Hi Thanks for the tutorial!  I am not positive at this point how I entered the refund page, but the amount was not able to be adjusted. Yes, I tried selecting (highlighting) the total and changing it, and it would not budge.

Next time I will be more persistent now that I know that you have had luck with changing the total.

[modern-artifact]

Yes, that is pretty much the way I see it now. There is no Santa Claus and there is no such thing as "No returns accepted" . 

[modern-artifact]

Hmmm.... Thanks for that insight... Very telling indeed.  This confirms the idiocy of my prior policy "Only If not as described"  That tells window shoppers "justy say it was not as described". 

[modern-artifact]

Yes, you are 100% correct. That is the sting that is hard to take... That the ebay playing field is now so tilted. It almost seems as if they are trying to kill off all the "little guys".