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Just discovered frightening information about Ebay

I am in a bitter dispute with my buyer. I have an excellent seller record. I have never had a complaint. I have handled large ticket priced returns with no issues. In this case a few days prior I did a $599 dollar return with NO issues.  Then this one buyer decides to scam me claiming I sent him a different item than pictured.  First he demands some money back. I told him no. Why would I give someone extra money back when I didn't send the broken item he claims I did. Then he threatened my feedback score if I didn't so I told him to open a case if he has an issue with me. That seemed the most protected thing I could reply with. I called Ebay after he trashed my feedback & they restored by removing it. All in total I have spent 6 hours on the phone with Ebay. 4 times reassured I would win the dispute based on my detailed photos and that his claim has even a different serial number than what I sent. Imagine my shock when he won the case & can just "send the broken part back".  

He has heat in his house because of my good part and he going to send me back the broken part he removed to put mine in and I am the one eating the sale.  Folks this is a $200 sale plus about $60 in shipping.  Needless to say I was furious. I called Ebay talked to a supervisor and discovered some frightening things.

First of all your history as a seller and feedback score mean NOTHING to those deciding a case.

All cases are merited by the information of the sale only.  Is that not insane. I have hundreds of good sales and that doesn't count.  He has a feed back of 62.  Really.  My history and return history as a seller makes no difference when deciding a case like this. 

I thought that was what Ebay scores were all about. We all know Ebay tends to rule more for the buyer than the seller but when you have large ticked items these ruling can ruin your back account and in this case my daughters Christmas. This man has threatened me. Tried to extort me. Yet they gave him my part and his money back.  This is not justice.  Yet I know when the part comes I can open a case that they didn't send what I sent back.  That isn't the point.  My point is fair and valid.  Why would a seller with an impecable history who have large ticket returns with no issues suddenly decide to screw over this guy?  I assumed my history was part of judging me as a seller.

I am now considering limiting my Ebay sales to nothing over $50 as I can't afford scam buyers

to ruin my bank account like this.  I am devestated to hear how Ebay decides these cases. I wanted

you all to know that it's shocking to discover this I had no idea and for those of you out there selling please keep that in mind. Your sales history means NOTHING when it comes to deciding a case.

 

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Just discovered frightening information about Ebay


@ev_healer wrote:

The supervisor on the phone said if he sends me back the item as they have told him to do and what I recieve is not what I originally sent that I need to open a claim stating that.  That is what I meant by opening a claim. He said to call them if what I sent is not what he returns.  I am just quoting what they told me at Ebay.  If there is no option for this then he gave me false information.  I have never had to deal with anything like this before. 


Dude, you have to stop calling CS....  They are notorious for only telling sellers what they think the sellers want to hear - and most of the time if you follow their advice, your account will suffer for it.

 

There is NO APPEAL.  If the buyer has been refunded - ebay never takes the money back from a buyer and so they never have to send back anything.  We have seen this over and over.

 

AND if ebay refunded since you refused - your account has a double whammy defect on it.

 

Years ago, before the scamming got really bad, I sold a Rolex watch.  When the buyer got it, first he claimed it was broke, then he claimed it was a fake.  Rather than let him scam me, I told him that since he was only a couple of states over, I would drive over with the photos of the watch's id numbers and the jewelers records, a laptop, and a police officer and we would pick it up and I would refund them the minute I get my watch back in my hands.  Amazingly, the watch worked and was real and I never heard from his blocked but again.

 

You might try that.  Tell him that you will be over to pick up your part with a police officer to check to see that the serial numbers of the part that is in his furnace matches the one you put on the stolen property report you will make against him.

(*Bleep*)

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Message 53 of 94
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Just discovered frightening information about Ebay

 

"First of all your history as a seller and feedback score mean NOTHING to those deciding a case.

All cases are merited by the information of the sale only.  Is that not insane. I have hundreds of good sales and that doesn't count.  He has a feed back of 62.  Really.  My history and return history as a seller makes no difference when deciding a case like this. "

--------

 

Yes,

because eBay knows high-count, long term sellers

can get their account hacked by a scammer who

could use it to fraudulently list items.

 

Lynn


Lynn

You love me for everything you hate me for


.
Message 2 of 94
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Just discovered frightening information about Ebay

" Imagine my shock when he won the case & can just "send the broken part back".  

He has heat in his house because of my good part and he going to send me back the broken part he removed to put mine in and I am the one eating the sale.

Yet they gave him my part and his money back.

Yet I know when the part comes I can open a case that they didn't send what I sent back.  "

----------------

 

I'm a bit confused.

So has he been refunded And allowed to keep the item?

 

Did you refuse the return, and when it was escalated, eBay sided with the buyer?

 

 

Lynn


Lynn

You love me for everything you hate me for


.
Message 3 of 94
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Just discovered frightening information about Ebay

OP, it is even worse than you imagine.

 

Not only is it true that a sellers good history of good feedback and no disputes out of hundres - maybe even thousands of transactions - a buyers BAD history of filing disputes on every purchase or using feedback extortion or getting reported about abusing every transaction, is not taken into account when deciding a dispute in favor of the buyer.

 

ebay believes that buyers are their customers and are impossible to replace.  And it appears to anyone following ebay's buyercentric policy making tactics - it seems that ebay believes that sellers are disposable AND that scammers will buy more than any honest buyer will. 

 

You have just discovered something many long term ebayer's have known for years.  And why many will not list high dollar items on, or even use ebay anymore.

(*Bleep*)
Message 4 of 94
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Just discovered frightening information about Ebay


Message 5 of 94
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Just discovered frightening information about Ebay


@18704d wrote:

" Imagine my shock when he won the case & can just "send the broken part back".  

He has heat in his house because of my good part and he going to send me back the broken part he removed to put mine in and I am the one eating the sale.

Yet they gave him my part and his money back.

Yet I know when the part comes I can open a case that they didn't send what I sent back.  "

----------------

 

I'm a bit confused.

So has he been refunded And allowed to keep the item?

 

Did you refuse the return, and when it was escalated, eBay sided with the buyer?

 

 

Lynn


I am thinking that the OP escalated because he believed he was in the right and ebay made the fun decision that the buyer won, got the refund and they can send back the item whenever they get around to it.  Which, of course, they won't do because they already got the full refund.

 

Many scammers - and ebay count on sellers not understanding the dispute process - and/or being stubborn about their return or no return policies.

(*Bleep*)
Message 6 of 94
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Just discovered frightening information about Ebay

sorry didn't mean to make that confusing.  So he opened a item not described case after his third attempt to get a partial refund.  

 

The item in question is a motor for a furnace.  He told me in his threat and this is an exact quote

"I will just keep the part and give you a bad feedback I am the buyer you are just the seller"

 

Now that tells me he knows how Ebay is with returns. That they generally rule in buyer favor.

Then in the complaint he asked for just a partial refund. I refused why should I buy my feedback score or protection from him when he is lying. So I refused.  He supplied pictures of the broken motor. The problem is the pictures he supplied didn't match the seiral numbers of my item.  So I am assuming his pictures are of the broken part he took out of his furnace.  So he has heat. Can send me the broken part he needed to replace and gets his money while my part is in his furnace.  

 

I haven't recieved the return but I know what I will be getting. He claims I won't let him send the part back because it doesn't match the photos of what I sold.  He is right. I want my part back or him to pay. So I know what is coming in the mail. This man knew what he was doing.   I will open a case when it comes but I am not holding my breath after this horrid experience.  I am so frustrated. This was my duaghters Christmas that he ruined because he is not honest.  I am frightened to sell a high ticket item now. With money at that magnitude at stake they should take all your selling experience into consideration when dealing with dishonest buyers.  JMO

 

Hope that cleared it up. Sorry it was bumpy writing. 

 

Happy Holidays. 

Message 7 of 94
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Just discovered frightening information about Ebay

Hi OP,

 

I discovered this reality about 4 years ago.

 

I found out that the only thing back then that mattered to ebay was their money and nothing else. Since then it has only gotten worse as many buyers have been emboldened with the indemnity they seem to have here.

 

They give us limited tools to cover our hineys but ebay's hiney is layered with protections.

 

The only way to sell here is realizing that both ebay and PP are the big fish in the pond and they are the ones that set the tone.

 

The safest thing to do is find your own little eddy in the back water guarding yourself with the few tools ebay gives you and from there hope you never get ripped off...or better yet stick to items that have a low scam and/or risk factor.

 

Mr C

Message 8 of 94
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Just discovered frightening information about Ebay

You sold a part.

The buyer claimed it was broken.

You refused a refund.

The buyer threatened to leave negative feedback.

You refused a refund.

The buyer left negative feedback.

You used the threat to have the FB removed.

The buyer opened a Dispute.

You refused a return for refund.

EBay told him to return the part for a refund.

He pays for the return.

He has not returned the part.

No money has been taken from your account.

 

Frankly, I think the buyer is in the right.

For some reason, the part you sent him does not work.

Maybe it was damaged in transit.

Maybe he broke it while installing it.

 

But the pattern you describe sounds more like a person with a broken part that he paid $260 for and a stubborn seller who will not stand behind his product.

The first clue is that he went to Feedback, before noticing that he could open a Dispute. That's  a pretty good clue that he is not used to eBay and it's resolution system.

 

20/20 hindsight: If you had told him to return the part for a full refund, you would not now have a Defect on your selling account for refusing a Claim.

 

At this moment, you are NOT out $260. He has not returned the part. Until he does, you are not required to refund.

When he does return the part, refund promptly. It might save you from that Defect.

 

If he is a scammer, he will probably not spend $60 to return the part. And you will not be required to refund.

 

Now.

In future, try to understand that this is business and not personal.

Not every transaction will go perfectly.

And this is where Cookie Jar Insurance comes in.

With hundreds of good sales, if you put a tiny amount, maybe a dime, aside for the occasional problem (late delivery, shipping the wrong part, damage in transit) then when something inevitably goes wrong, you take those dimes out of the virtual Cookie Jar you tossed them in and cover it.

Before the buyer leaves negative feedback.

Before the buyer opens a dispute.

Before you get a Defect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Message 9 of 94
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Just discovered frightening information about Ebay

I'm waiting to find out what the frightening information is.  So far, all I see is the normal dispute process.

 

 


Forget keeping up with the Joneses. Be the Finklegrubers!
OK kids, time to get the Dodge loaded up again. I hear 'Poppy's By the Tree' calling. This trip might be a long one too.
Message 10 of 94
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Just discovered frightening information about Ebay


@ev_healer wrote:

I am in a bitter dispute with my buyer. I have an excellent seller record. I have never had a complaint. I have handled large ticket priced returns with no issues. In this case a few days prior I did a $599 dollar return with NO issues.  Then this one buyer decides to scam me claiming I sent him a different item than pictured.  First he demands some money back. I told him no. Why would I give someone extra money back when I didn't send the broken item he claims I did. Then he threatened my feedback score if I didn't so I told him to open a case if he has an issue with me. That seemed the most protected thing I could reply with. I called Ebay after he trashed my feedback & they restored by removing it. All in total I have spent 6 hours on the phone with Ebay. 4 times reassured I would win the dispute based on my detailed photos and that his claim has even a different serial number than what I sent. Imagine my shock when he won the case & can just "send the broken part back".  

He has heat in his house because of my good part and he going to send me back the broken part he removed to put mine in and I am the one eating the sale.  Folks this is a $200 sale plus about $60 in shipping.  Needless to say I was furious. I called Ebay talked to a supervisor and discovered some frightening things.

First of all your history as a seller and feedback score mean NOTHING to those deciding a case.

All cases are merited by the information of the sale only.  Is that not insane. I have hundreds of good sales and that doesn't count.  He has a feed back of 62.  Really.  My history and return history as a seller makes no difference when deciding a case like this. 

I thought that was what Ebay scores were all about. We all know Ebay tends to rule more for the buyer than the seller but when you have large ticked items these ruling can ruin your back account and in this case my daughters Christmas. This man has threatened me. Tried to extort me. Yet they gave him my part and his money back.  This is not justice.  Yet I know when the part comes I can open a case that they didn't send what I sent back.  That isn't the point.  My point is fair and valid.  Why would a seller with an impecable history who have large ticket returns with no issues suddenly decide to screw over this guy?  I assumed my history was part of judging me as a seller.

I am now considering limiting my Ebay sales to nothing over $50 as I can't afford scam buyers

to ruin my bank account like this.  I am devestated to hear how Ebay decides these cases. I wanted

you all to know that it's shocking to discover this I had no idea and for those of you out there selling please keep that in mind. Your sales history means NOTHING when it comes to deciding a case.

 


i find i am not sure aftern reading this i even understand what was the true story...and "I thought" gets you in trouble every time... AND the feedback score, meant more than something to you and some stats...guess you know now .  

you told him to open a case? well most seller would agree that was a big mistake...how about "RETURN FOR REFUND"....if it cost you on the shipping...you would have been saving a lot of time, money, and headache in the end.... RETURN FOR REFUND!  as far as ebay CS, yep they look at details right then, anything else wouldn't matter...and if they threatened your feedback...they can see that... if you said, "return for refund" they would have seen that....AND they would see the buyer did or didn't...there is a process and procedure...THAT the buyer must follow...in order to get he refund....because if it didn't get sent with tracking number...you call them..they close the return and done....

SO my point is, yep this can and does happen to many...BUT  you take a little of it on you too-- you need to be ready for this kind of thing. Knowing the procedure for "RETURN FOR REFUND"  will help avoid most all of this....but once you tell the buyer to open the case, you have a tougher road....

and yes shipping can and will cut into your profits, but as you see now....so does this kind of thing.

 

sellers have to think ahead and yes sometimes do what isn't fair..but is the same ...return for refund...you'll find scammers back off...or don't send it...and as i said..then you cal close it and its done.

as far as a broken piece... sometimes it is easy to send and buyer is happy... but once you said open the case... they would have done tah on there own...and you would say ..OK RETURN FOR REFUND...

feedback can be removed in some cases, but not many...so you many do everything ok.but they leave a negative....that's the silly of it all....

 

ok my point made.... so learn, move on....can't go back--so go forward and don't think you know EBAY CS .... best not to get that far...you solve it or do what need be.

Message 11 of 94
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Just discovered frightening information about Ebay

I had a similar problem a few months back. 

Sold an item when the buyer received it he claimed it was damaged and wanted to return it.

I ok'd the return Received item back and it was definately not the correct item or was everything 

I sent included.

EBAY told me to message the customer and see if I can get him to admit he sent the wrong item back and did not include everything.

Sent email and buyer stated he returned what he received. I spoke to CS again. They told me I had to refund. I pointed out that the pictures I furnished were not close to the condition of the item I sold. Also I pointed out that my feedback since 2002 was almost 30,000 (99% of it is as a seller) and the buyers was only 15

They said it does not matter If the buyer claims he sent back what he received that they will side with the buyer as they have no way to tell if I really sent what I said I did. I even talked to a supervisor and got the same story.

Glad it as not a costly item like yours was.

EBAY will always side with the buyer. A sellers history is not even considered. Not even in case like yours where the item has a different serial number.

I am sorry that this happened to you particularlly at this time of the year.

Message 12 of 94
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Just discovered frightening information about Ebay

It seems to me that we are consistently finding out that some of the worst scammers are other sellers, buying for resale. They tend to understand the weaknesses in the Ebay process the best.

 

So does Ebay automatically decide for the seller acting as a seller over the seller acting as a buyer? 

 

Talking about "buyers" and "sellers" as if they are like two opposing countries in a World War is just wrong. Today most sellers buy and many buyers sell. They're all the same people.

 

What Ebay tries to do is undo a transaction as best they can. However if something goes wrong they cannot tell whether the seller seller is telling the truth or the buyer seller.

 

Message 13 of 94
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Just discovered frightening information about Ebay

Maybe I speed read these replies, too...but...not one reply has noted the different serial numbers.

 

Some "facts" are disputable...serial numbers are NOT.

Message 14 of 94
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Just discovered frightening information about Ebay

Here's something for the future. Protect yourself. There are ways. If nothing else, when in doubt, remove all payment methods from your account so no one can draw on it. Send your paypal balance to the bank and remove it too. Your running listings will still run. You can always put them back when ready. With holiday sales at zero so far and ebay search routing everyone to only the China sellers or top rated bad attitudes, I might be closing this account by year's end.
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