Buying Used HO Diesel and Steam Locomotives - Pricing and Quality Issues

[articulatedgeared01]

Fri 9-21-18 9:28 p.m.

After some 40 years of buying and repairing HO locomotives, I thought it might be helpful to provide some tips on purchasing used, "low-end" diesel and steam locomotives.  The most common are what I call the "bacon / lettuce / tomato" or "BLT" or "discount house" or "Christmas set" locos.  This includes Bachmann, older Life-Life (not newer Life-Like) and Tyco (Tyler Company) locos.

When I go to train shows, I look for distressed BLT locos for about $1.00 each.  Top end for a BLT loco in good shape is about $3.00 to $5.00.  Most model railroaders really do not want these locos.  

The major concern I have on the Bachmann and Tyco diesel and steam locos is what I call the "side-winder" motors.  Some A.C. Gilbert - American Flyer (not too bad), Lima (very problematic 0-4-0 steamers) and Fleishmann (problematic) diesels / steamers also have side-winder motors.  The problem with the Bachmann and Tyco diesel side winder motors is that they are made from printed circuit board material.  The commutators (part of the armature) tends to get coated with graphite from the brushes.  This causes arcing and over-heating of the motors.  Overheating tends to cause the springs to weaken and collapse.  Then there is no tension on the graphite brush.   Lack of lubrication or excessive lubrication makes matters worse.  If thread, Christmas tinsle, dog hair or carpet fibers get wrapped around the axles, this puts quite a bit of stress on the loco motor.  This leads to more arcing and overheating, which tends to damage the printed circuit board material.  The copper wire windings on the armature can also over-heat, short-out, or even burn the insulation off the wiring.  Then the locos emit a terrible smell when they are operated.  

The Tyco diesel and steam locos have a small gear on the the armature which has a tendency to come loose and fall off or free spin.  This can be repaired with a drop a 3M Threadlocker Red in some cases, but it can also weep through to the motor bushings and completely lock down the loco motor.  The key is to put some lubricant on the back side of the gear next to the metal motor casing and then use a straight pin to put the Threadlocker on the gear-armature shaft interface.  The gear must also be properly positioned so that it engages the large gear on the side of the motor housing.  The traction tires tend to fall off the Tyco wheels and the wheels tend to crack.  Gear teeth can also get broken (4 each gears and 3 each geared wheels).  Be careful not to pry the large hear off the motor housing.  The zamac post which holds the large gear has a tendency to break off.   If you listen closely, you can hear clicking noise which means there is a cracked gear. 

The Tyco Chattanooga and Clementine 2-8-0 Consolidation-type steam locos also use the same side winder motor and have similar problems to the Tyco diesels.  In additon, the locos are a tender-drive which means the steam loco itself is very light.  This is not a good loco for pulling lots of cars.  It will simply burn up under a heavy load.  

Personally, I like the Tyco models.  They are the best of the BLT locos.  However, you should be prepared for problems.  It is best to operate these locos for about 15 minutes and then let them cool off a bit before operating them again.  Call it a rest stop.  

The Bachmann diesels have a side-winder motor with a brass gear.  The gear tends to stay put, which is a good thing.  However, the motors also use the printed circuit board type armature.  The motors can overheat, carbon up, and collapse the graphite brush springs.  The bronze bushings in the plastic motor housing can also overheat, melt the adjacent plastic housing, and cause the armature to run off center and jam.  This is repairable, but it is not an easy repair.

The gears in the Bachmann diesels have a tendency to crack.  If you listen closely, you can hear clicking noise which means there is a cracked gear.  The wipers on the wheels can oxidize or get bent, the inside of the wheels can get dirty, or wires going to the wipers can break off.  Then the loco may not run or may run erratically.  

Another problem with the Bachmann diesels is that they are provided with steel weights.  Therefore, they not pull worth a hoot.  Loading up the locos with lots of cars is a sure fire way to cook the light motor in the loco.  Please don't add weight to the loco.  This is a stupid fix.

The Life-Like locos have an in-line motor.  It is not a bad little motor, but the brush carrier assembly is a bit fragile.  The problem with the Life-Like locos is that the drive shaft hub on the motor output shaft tends to splint and the loco will not run.  The gears can also crack or break in two.  Once again, listen for that clicking noise which indicates a cracked gear.  The worst of the Life-Like steamers is a little 0-4-0, old time, tea kettle type design.  They are molded with black and red (violet) plastic.  They suck (pardon my French).  They are notorious for cracking gears and are extremely difficult to repair.  On the other hand, the Life-Like 0-4-0 Docksider is not a bad little loco.  The side rods are kind of clunky, but they do run fairly well if the gears are not stripped out.  

The Lima 0-4-0's are terrible.  They have a simple chrome crosshead head guide.  They are very difficult to repair.  They have that wonderful side-winder motor.  Need I say more.  The mount which holds the boiler shell in place almost always breaks off.  It is difficult to remove the screw and the mount.  On the bright side, you can throught the mount away and install a longer screw to hold the boiler shell in place.

Older Bachman diesels and steamers are generally a nightmare.  They have Zamac (pot metal) chassis pieces.  Many of the models have Zamac cancer (rotting disintegrating Zamac).  

The Bachman steamers generally alway go out of quarter.  This can cause the driver wheels to shift / jam and the motors can burn up too.  What is happening is that the plastic axles crack / splint which allows the the driver wheels to shift. Bachmann steamers also use side-winder motors.

Personally, I like the Bachman steamers (0-6-0, 2-8-0, 4-8-4, 2-10-4).  However, I have to go in and drill and pin every axle / driver set in two locations.  This is not a trivial task.  Oh, buy the way, do not try to use super-glue to repair the axles and drivers.  It will break in short order.  The torque on the cracked axles is too great.  It also creates problems for me when I try to repair something that was repaired previously and then failed.  Drilling and pinning is one of the few reliable repairs with which I am familiar.  There is another repair technique, but I will not get into it here.

I will try to write some more on this subject later.  However, try not to spend too much for the BLT locos.  There are many HO locos out there which are heavier and more reliable.

Regards,

ag01

[articulatedgeared01]

Fri 9-21-18 11:14 p.m.

Corrections to Post

1) large hear [gear]

2) hear [a] clicking noise

3) [will] not pull

4) Oh, buy [by] the way

5) throught [throw] the mount away

6) generally alway [always] go out of quarter

I need to backtrack on the Life-Like 0-4-0 Docksider.  These locos have a nasty tendency to crack the crown gear on the axle.  I have repaired a number of the Docksiders by drilling and pinnng the plastic gear to the steel axle.  I also have to provide a plastic fusion weld on either side of the gear.  In some cases, I have also pinned the two broken halves of the gear together. 

Play-art locos are generally of poor quality.  They tend to strip crown gears.  I have repaired two of them.  Both repairs were very time consuming.  If I did not like HO trains so much, I would have parted them out.  The basic problem is that motor chews a number of the teeth off the crown gear.

There is a Lilliput 4-6-0 which has a problem with driver wheels.  The wheels are made from Zamac.  The zamac cracks and the vapor-deposited coating or plated coating peels off the Zamac.  However, the driver wheels can be mopped with super glue and if necessary patched with small pieces of tin can stock.  Then the driver surfaces / driver flanges can be re-surfaced with a jewler's file.  Curiously, I have worked on two of these locos and they came back from the grave.

I just finished repairing an Arbour Models 2-6-6-6 which I purchased from Trainz (untested).  The Arbour Models are made from a low-melting-temperature alloy (white metal).  They are not made from Zamac.  It is my understanding that the alloy pieces can be glued together.  If you solder the pieces together, then you need to be a rocket scientist.  Some small u-shaped valve gear pieces broke on my model.  I repaired the broken parts with small pieces of tin can stock.  The model runs reasonably well.  Given the time it takes to build such a model, I thought it was a bargain.  But this is not a model for wimps.

There is a similar white metal steam loco model which is made in England (Masteriece Models?).  Some of the pieces are made by chemically etching brass and steel sheet.  They build into a nice model (if you are willing to do a lot or filing with a jeweler's file).  However, like the Arbour Models, they are not a model for wimps.  I was very careful to open each plastic compartment in the kit and then reseal it with tape so that I did not lose anything.  It was a chore, but worked out well.

I am not particularly fond of the older Pennline diesel models which used a linear spring drive system.  The spring tends to bend or distort and has running problems.

I have run into some problems repairing Cox diesels.  They are rather noisy when they run.  

There is a Roco diesel model where the motor is embedded in the chassis.  These are exteremly difficult diesels to repair.  The primary problem is motor access.

There are some old spring-drive Lindeberg diesel switcher models.  The spring drive is very unusual.  I think I got one to run, but I do not consider the model to be a winner.

Hobbytown diesels are interesting to repair.  The main issue is to make sure that the parts are thoroughly deburred and surfaces are smooth and properly aligned.

I have repaired a number of the heavy Zamac Varney diesels.  I generally like them.  The plastic versions of the same diesels are a  little on the noisy side.  However, they can be made to run.

The Revell diesels are very interesting to repair.  If they sit around for awhile, the o-rings take a set and the diesels will not run.  It is tricky to replace the o-rings, but it can be done.  They also have a little centrifugal clutch.  Who knows how they came up with that system!!  I found that there were molding problems with the drums (hubs) which cause the centrifugal weights to slip inside the drums / hubs.  What I did to fix this problem was to lightly file the inner diameter of the drum / hub to ensure that the bore was cylindrical.  It may look cylindrical, but the cylindrical portion may be convex or concave.  This causes the weights to run on the high part of the surface and causes slippage.  Turning the drum or hub in a lathe would be ideal, but hand filing will work.  The motor is very sturdy.  You need to be very careful not to lose the black plastic step washers which go between the trucks and the chassis.  If you fail to install them, the model will short out.  I actually like these older 50's vintage models.  However, even the repaired models will eventually have problems with that o-ring which likes to take a set.  

Regards,

ag01