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Listing Question: "Book Pieces"

Hi everyone!

 

I have a listing question. Let's say I have a D&E butterfly that is identical construction, front and back, to one in an ID book except the stones are different. Can I say my item is "confirmed" D&E? Can I say it's a "book piece", or does that only apply if my item is identical to the one in the book? I've attached photos as an example. The orange (much more beautiful) butterfly is from isitjuliana.com (http://isitjulianajewelry.com/view.php?id=2258). The other photos are mine. The stone shapes and placement are the same, but they are different colors.

 

When I say "Can I say", I mean "Can I say accurately".

 

Thank you in advance for any and all advice/opinions!

 

Richelle

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Listing Question: "Book Pieces"

 There is one here shown in pink..same as yours except the center marquis is close-back ..so not sure. Sometimes a tiny detail  like that makes a difference between yes & no.  Cat Wink

 

http://imageevent.com/antique_treasures/verificationfolders/verifieddejuliana2011/brooches

 

Interesting that there is not one in this particular style on the  other D&E Verifcation site in the butterfly section..unless I just missed it

~~~Sarah~~~There's only ONE bad day when you love an animal
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Listing Question: "Book Pieces"

D&E butterflies are really hard to id sometimes.  For example, your butterfly is not exactly the same as the one you posted.  The two marquise stones on the lower wing of the verified one has closed back settings, yours appears to be open backed.  I found a pink one on the NotD&EAlbum about half way down the page with a black background: 

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=oa.368957503295309&type=1&hc_location=ufi

that has open backed stones on the bottom wings, BUT it also has open backed stones on the two pear shaped stones in the top wings.  As you can see here:

http://imageevent.com/kjwshopping/detrainingalbums/trainingquizes/smalldifferencestellthetale

little things do make a difference.

 

So this takes me right back up to, D&E butterflies are really hard to id sometimes.  I'll see if Paula can stop by and take a look at your piece.

 

As it stands righ now, your piece is not the same as the one in the book or the one on the site, BUT it's not the same as the one in the NotD&EAlbum either.  Bad news/good news.  AND it's not the same as the one Sarah provided a link to either.  Confused yet?  I know I am.

 

 

Though the beauty may be in the butterfly, the struggle and growth occur in the cocoon.
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Listing Question: "Book Pieces"

the round stone in  the top part of the wings also has a different number of prongs.

I agree with Sandy that the butterflies are hard. Ive had some confirmed yes and some confirmed no that look almost exactly alike.

 photo 0bd055e0-f76a-4f06-b6fc-f8dfa2c4abf8.jpgisn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit
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Listing Question: "Book Pieces"

good news. Foudn one with the identical construction in confirmed yes folder of butterfly figurals, in the old Yahoo group files, #103 and #104.  Its more colorful and the finish is slightly difference but the stones are open when yours are, closed backs when yours are, and all the settings match.

 photo 0bd055e0-f76a-4f06-b6fc-f8dfa2c4abf8.jpgisn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit
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Listing Question: "Book Pieces"

Hi Richelle,

 

You're getting good responses from the members here. 

 

There is a butterfly "similar" to yours Confirmed as D&E.  By "similar", I mean the wings are outlined with rhinestone chaining, the pears and navettes are located in the same layout, the chatons are multi pronged, same scroll antenna, same joint & catch pin back.  HOWEVER, the confirmed butter has smooth top navettes for the larger sized ones in the bottom wings and ONLY they are open backed.  All other settings are closed backed, including the central navette.

 

This style of butterfly was heavily produced and probably produced by various manufacturers in various makeups.  Based on the information available for D&E Juliana butterflies, I would have to say yours is NOT.

 

Glad you asked!

 

times.....

 

 

 

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Listing Question: "Book Pieces"

Oops - Sorry, cleio.  See your post, after I posted my response.  Look again at your reference - in particular the center Navette.

 

times....

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Listing Question: "Book Pieces"

 

 

yes I see that closed back setting now

 

 

There's one confirmed no in 2008 thats a nearly identical copy but its also not the same construction, has four prongs per stone like the orange one but more open backs. And, most importantly, its missing one small stone in the top wing.  One in 2010 has an identical front but a different pin back and different combo of open backs settings. This is why they are so hard lol!

 

Looking at just the construction details, number and placement of open back settings, type of prongs, and pin back, the OPs butterfly isnt identical to either the confiimed yes or no butterflies but seems to have more in common with the confirmed yes, imho.

 

I cant say either way tho, Id wait to find an identical one that has already been confirmed

 

 photo 0bd055e0-f76a-4f06-b6fc-f8dfa2c4abf8.jpgisn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit
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Listing Question: "Book Pieces"

When it comes to D&E butterflies, Paula is my go to gal.  In my opinion she is an expert, and I don't use that term lightly, as you all are aware.  I know that she is doing some further research and I'm sure if she comes up with a different opinion, she will let us know.  Thanks, Paula for taking a look.

 

A word of caution though about finding an identical one that is already confirmed.  Unfortunately, there are pieces out there that have been "confirmed" and then, let's say unconfirmed, not to mention some people that claim confirmation that has no idea what a true D&E piece is.  Big Sigh.  So the journey to verifying or confirming pieces of D&E can be long and difficult and sometimes just plain confusing and frustrating.

Though the beauty may be in the butterfly, the struggle and growth occur in the cocoon.
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Listing Question: "Book Pieces"

Thank you all for your help! And for all the great site links! Yes, I'm totally confused!

 

Good catch on the different number of prongs. I haven't seen another (yet) that has as many prongs on that stone as mine.

 

I found a few more butterflies on the site 1940fc linked to. None is identical, but even the ones with similar layouts on the front can have open or closed backs. 

Here is one that's "confirmed" but has open backs top and bottom!

open backs top bottomsimilar front

http://imageevent.com/antique_treasures/verificationfolders/verifieddejuliana2011/figurals?p=3&n=1&m...

 

I tried to open that facebook page, but I got a message saying the content wasn't available. 😕

 

I just requested to join the Yahoo group so I can see photos #103 and #104. If the finish and colors are different, maybe I should fix my listing! (I seem to have jumped the gun.)

 

Thank you again everyone. Sometimes it's as important to know what you don't know, as it is to know what you do. Off to edit...

 

Richelle

 

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