The Flip Side

[chrysylys]

We read an awful lot about how so many stores are closing due to competition from the web.  We read how people seem to prefer buying off the web while sitting at home in their Jammies instead of getting dressed and driving to stores the way we always used to.

We forget that there is a flip side to that.  I made one of my few recent trips to town today in search of a few things.  I got most of what was on my list, but I wanted some thread for sewing and some heat shrink tubing.  Common items, right?  Not. 

I went to HF (the discount tool store) where they had some heat shrink, but not any real selection and not what I wanted.  Radio Shack used to carry it, but they're gone.  We don't have any orther electronics type stores to speak of.

Then I went to HL (the hobby place that made news a few years ago) for the thread.  Again, some ... a fair selection, but ridiculous on prices in my view.

So, I search here for both.  The heat shrink is all over the place.  Oddly, I see exactly the same selections as HF had for the same prices.  I have no idea how those sellers will do that since HF doesn't ship for free.  I also see the usual A Swoosh logo.  Since there are plenty of other choices, I'll be able to skip over all those and find what I want.

On the thread, I find twice the size for half the price with shipping included.  In some cases a selection of 4 or 5 spools for just a bit more than the HL shelf price.

I prefer to buy in stores and I tried to today.  But when they don't carry what we need or at reasonable prices, what are we left to do?

[berserkerplanet]

Yep. I'm more and more amazed at how hard it's getting to find a lot of things in a B&M these days. As you noted if they have a widget at all, there is no product selection.

I only play on economist on TV, so don't understand how it can be the fault of the internet and online shopping for a lot of items.

Thread for instance. With a minimum approx $2.50 added to small item shipping for online purchases, how can online prices match or beat B&M prices (where original transport to the store was freight, or at least bulk UP/FedEx shipments)

HL doesn't (or shouldn't) place an order for just 1 spool of thread to replace sold stock, so those transport costs should be lower than the cost to ship a single spool to an end user.

[postingid2017]

I try to purchase some items from B&M locally for items that I may need in a hurry or that they are convenient for me.  There is a small fabric store within walking distance from my home and I get my thread(s), notions and fabric from him.  It may be a bit more expensive, but he is a nice man.  He tells me that I am his best customer (he does not really know me ;), but I like the back and forth banter between us, sort of like what it was when I was growing up, that one on one customer service which is rare at some establishments.  I will still purchase items online when necessary, even with the new tax laws that may take place.  I do not feel that online shopping is killing B&M's, but I could be wrong.  I just feel that the States are attempting to get their hands on funds that would not benefit the individual States anyway.  More like what would go into their pockets instead of actually benefiting the individual States. 

[cs43ls]

There are a lot of reasons why B&M stores have less selection and charge  more for many items. A lot of it has to do with their overhead expenses.

They have to make the following pmts:

Lease, Rent or Mortgage , various Insurances ,possible franchise fees, local,state and federal sales Taxes, Salaries ,Benefits ( Hosp. Vacation, Disability, etc ) Real Estate taxes, Security, Utilities, bathroom supplies, Cleaning help, etc. 

And then there are RETURNS AND SHRINKAGE /THEFT, all very costly.  

They also need to buy some of their Merchandise .

A lot of businesses are now renting/leasing shelf or floor space to suppliers who also act as stockers . Some supply the threads, an other the pictures, or the beads , etc.  ( Grocery stores have been doing this for years) In exchange ,the owner makes rental income and gets a cut of the items sold.  So now there are 2 or more businesses that need to make money.

Very few businesses can afford to buy all of their own inventory , also it is being taxed and its dead money till it sells.  

Thats why a spool of thread  that was 0.99 cents , is now $2.50

  And I do believe that E-commerce cuts into B&M stores bottom line.  Just compare your expenses to the list above and hope Ebay will not think of a bunch more things to charge us.  I also believe that sooner or later the Government will require Ebay to collect sales taxes.

Happy selling!!

[chrysylys]

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@cs43ls wrote:

Thats why a spool of thread  that was 0.99 cents , is now $2.50

 

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$2.50 might have been OK if I knew what they had would meet my needs.  What I was looking at was closer to $5.00 for something less than 500 yards.  I see 1,500 yard spools here for around that price with shipping included.  I also see 'lots' of multiple 250 yard spools in different colors for less than $10.00 with shipping included.  If there's a difference in quality, I can't determine that.

[mudshark61369]

@chrysylys,

You are missing the point of @cs43ls, post. Yes a high volume seller can sell an item for less than a B&M store's amount with free shipping, because they do not have the overhead of a retail store.  Selling from a warehouse incurs much less overhead than a B&M store, and they get the benefit of commercial bulk shipping rates to boot.

A couple of years ago I happened to find out an upper medium volume ebay seller lives less than a mile from me. They sell about 15K items per year, and run the whole thing out of their garage, giving them some great write offs on their taxes. They used to have a B&M store and sell on ebay, but didn't have the space to do both, and the overhead cut deeply into profits.

In the past you've admitted to buying a lot from China.  Those sellers have a huge advantage over domestic sellers. A) What they pay for an item up front.  B) Their Govt. subsidizes shipping to other countries. C) Because of a stupid trade agreement they do not pay anything to the USPS for final delivery. (which costs all of us money)

As far as quality is concerned, unless you ran a series of tests on the threads you would not know what materials are in the thread, its tensile strength, and do you actually receive 250 yards of thread on those spools?  Keep in mind those sellers regularly sell 64gb memory cards that do not have anywhere near that amount of storage capability, and they counterfeit a well known brand's items to cheat people.  

FYI,

You can find heat shrink tubing at HD in their electrical dept, and at many of the chain auto parts stores. Even Wally World has some in stock. If you have a Harbor F. store near to you they sell bulk quantity packages of it as well. 

[jklfindings]

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@cs43ls wrote:

There are a lot of reasons why B&M stores have less selection and charge  more for many items. A lot of it has to do with their overhead expenses.

They have to make the following pmts:

Lease, Rent or Mortgage , various Insurances ,possible franchise fees, local,state and federal sales Taxes, Salaries ,Benefits ( Hosp. Vacation, Disability, etc ) Real Estate taxes, Security, Utilities, bathroom supplies, Cleaning help, etc. 

And then there are RETURNS AND SHRINKAGE /THEFT, all very costly.  

They also need to buy some of their Merchandise .

A lot of businesses are now renting/leasing shelf or floor space to suppliers who also act as stockers . Some supply the threads, an other the pictures, or the beads , etc.  ( Grocery stores have been doing this for years) In exchange ,the owner makes rental income and gets a cut of the items sold.  So now there are 2 or more businesses that need to make money.

Very few businesses can afford to buy all of their own inventory , also it is being taxed and its dead money till it sells.  

Thats why a spool of thread  that was 0.99 cents , is now $2.50

  And I do believe that E-commerce cuts into B&M stores bottom line.  Just compare your expenses to the list above and hope Ebay will not think of a bunch more things to charge us.  I also believe that sooner or later the Government will require Ebay to collect sales taxes.

Happy selling!!

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Overhead is why I closed my B&M store and went completely online.  Every month I started roughly $4000 in the hole.  Lease, utilities, insurance, employees, etc.  One day I sat down and did a little math.  If I closed up shop and went completely online my sales would plummit, but my profit would be about $500 a month more than I was profitting at the time.   The final straw was our landlord wanting to change the terms of our lease.  10% more a year and they wanted a 7 year contract.  We closed up shop, and the space is still empty with our sign hanging 5 years later.   After 5 years I'm doing much better, have more free time and family time, and money.  I see these reports of "Mom and Pop shops being ran out of business" and I chuckle a little.  Some businesses close, and some adapt, it's pure economics.  Nothing stays the same.  If you want to be successful you have to adapt to the market. 

My point being, a lot of those Mom and Pop shops, havent been destroyed by online commerce.  They are the online commerce.

[7606dennis]

I personally like to shop in person.  I like to handle the merchandise when making my buying decisions.  Frankly, I would never consider buying a used car without taking it for a test drive.  However, in today's world many shoppers like to buy online.  It is something that merchants are going to have to reconcile their business practices with if they wish to survive.

Being particularly fond of auctions, as I am, I much prefer the excitement of a live sale as opposed to one conducted electronically.  I also like the ability to inspect items I'm contemplating purchasing before placing my bid.  What can I say, I'm old school.

There are a lot of things that have changed over the years.  Not all have been for the better, in my opinion, but change they have.  If one wants to survive they too must change.  When it comes to change good or bad makes little difference, something's lost, but something's gained.

Was it the Dickens' character, Fezzywig in "A Christmas Carol" that when speaking of change, "... I must be true to the old ways or die out, if needs must."  (My apologies to Mr. Dickens if I've butcher his prose.)

[chrysylys]

^^  So do I, and for the same reasons.  I want to handle the widget since I can't always tell from stated dimensions on websites.  They tend to get mixed up sometimes.

The heat shrink I want has to go down to about 24-26AWG, but none are typically rated that way here.  They list a normal diameter and a shrunk diameter.  Local stores don't typically have it that small and they don't have the colors I want.  I try to color code things, so I need at least 5 colors including blue yellow and clear.  Stores only had red, black and green.  And HF only had a precut assortment which may be too short for my needs.  I prefer the longer lengths or rolls so I can cut to size.

I can find all that here if I take the time to sort though and double check wire guage diameters.

[missjen831]

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@postingid2017 wrote:

I try to purchase some items from B&M locally for items that I may need in a hurry or that they are convenient for me.  There is a small fabric store within walking distance from my home and I get my thread(s), notions and fabric from him.  It may be a bit more expensive, but he is a nice man.  He tells me that I am his best customer (he does not really know me ;), but I like the back and forth banter between us, sort of like what it was when I was growing up, that one on one customer service which is rare at some establishments.  I will still purchase items online when necessary, even with the new tax laws that may take place.  I do not feel that online shopping is killing B&M's, but I could be wrong.  I just feel that the States are attempting to get their hands on funds that would not benefit the individual States anyway.  More like what would go into their pockets instead of actually benefiting the individual States. 

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I like to shop locally too, usually costs a little more but the convenience is well worth it—shorter/non-existent lines, better customer service. There aren’t a whole lot of locally owned stores around here anymore though. I have noticed for awhile now that the chain retailers have less and less of what I need. It’s becoming frustratingly common for me to go out in search of multiple items and return home empty handed because nobody had it! I even make it a habit to check websites to see if the item is in stock at the local store, but that’s a waste of time! I drove to 2 Sephora’s recently because the website said a certain product was in stock and neither one had it! I had to go to 3 stores to find a basketball!! Of all things a basketball! Finally found one at Target. Last week my daughter and husband went to a superhero themed father-daughter dance. Went to JC Penny’s and Kohl’s and they had nothing! It was a complete waste of time. And like I said, this is becoming so common that I am just going to start buying everything online & pay for overnight shipping if I want it fast. 

[7606dennis]

Alas!  Many stores no longer carry the items that I remember as being so common in my youth. 

Of course, it hasn't only been the advent of online shopping that has contributed to the decline of many a small business B&M store.  I remember when Wal-Mart and other large chain box stores arrived on the scene.  They sold for less and drove the small merchants out of business.  The big box home centers, unfortunately, took much of the business from the independent hardware stores.  Sadly, the big box stores don't stock many of the things in their hardware department that one could find in the hardware store.  Of course, lost too has been much of the experienced advise that was available at the local hardware store.  

I think Allen Jackson's song, "The Little Man," tells the story very accurately.

[tunicaslot]

I love to shop online - especially at Xmas - the deals I can get especially with cash back sites is amazing - but the downside is that you can't physically see and inspect the item to see the quality you receive for the money. Many times - I've gone to a B&M to look at an item before going home and purchasing it online - either from the same B&M online store or a competitor's with a better price.

When it comes to many things like clothing and shoes - I'd much rather shop at a B&M so I can try things on - it's a waste of my time doing returns and even in store pickup is a hassle due to the lines. It's so sad to go to these malls and find empty storefronts throughout.