Quick Concern on Buyer Return

[hughs_small_shop]

Thanks in advance for helping me with this.

I had my first conflict where the buyer claims damage due to poor packaging. After a back and forth, they were very agitated and I told them to return for a full refund. However I'm concerned because a lot of the claims the buyer made are very sketchy, and in his return request, he claimed that 50% of the items were damaged which I highly doubt is possible (the items aren't glass or anything, it was a lot of action figures and vehicles).

With the return in motion, I'm wondering if there is anything I can do IF the buyer returns the item with missing pieces as the item had a bunch of different small parts. These toys are expensive and I can realistically see the buyer taking a figure or two out when returning. I've heard of the horrors of ebay not protecting sellers at all and have been a bit spooked by that.

Also, I've heard that some sellers will videotape themselves opening returned items, or others will file a police report when making an appeal to ebay if they believe that the buyer is scamming and committing fraud. I don't care if the seller was lying or not, I just want to get my item back the way it was and would like to be prepared and know my options.

Thanks a bunch everyone.

[fashunu4eeuh · Accepted solution]

Hi, as for the video-tape of the opening of packages, eBay will not accept such efforts, it won’t protect you. If the buyer doesnt send everything back, you will still have to refund in full unless you do free returns, and then you are free to assess the problem and withhold a portion of the refund as compensation.

Never get into a back and forth with an unhappy buyer who wants to return. They have most of the power, backed by eBay. Reply “please return for a full refund” and nothing more. If they are claiming damage, you are between a rock and a hard place. They can open a Not As Described case which costs you return shipping and a full refund, even if they return a box of rocks.

The time to weigh your risk tolerance is before you list the item. After the sale, sellers have limited remedies for “faulty” returns. Come back to the boards if there is an issue with this return, and knowledgable posters will advise on next steps.

[threshold.sales.group]

OP, unfortunately the only real "seller protection" is for an item not received claim where online tracking shows delivered.  For an SNAD / MBG claim there is no protection. Videos won't help. 

[gracieallen01]

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@hughs_small_shop wrote:

Thanks in advance for helping me with this.

I had my first conflict where the buyer claims damage due to poor packaging. After a back and forth, they were very agitated and I told them to return for a full refund. However I'm concerned because a lot of the claims the buyer made are very sketchy, and in his return request, he claimed that 50% of the items were damaged which I highly doubt is possible (the items aren't glass or anything, it was a lot of action figures and vehicles).

With the return in motion, I'm wondering if there is anything I can do IF the buyer returns the item with missing pieces as the item had a bunch of different small parts. These toys are expensive and I can realistically see the buyer taking a figure or two out when returning. I've heard of the horrors of ebay not protecting sellers at all and have been a bit spooked by that.

Also, I've heard that some sellers will videotape themselves opening returned items, or others will file a police report when making an appeal to ebay if they believe that the buyer is scamming and committing fraud. I don't care if the seller was lying or not, I just want to get my item back the way it was and would like to be prepared and know my options.

Thanks a bunch everyone.

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Unfortunately, ebay considers 'faulty returns' (not getting everything, or getting something other than, back) as a 'cost of doing business' and there isn't much - if anything - you can do about it.  ebay has control of the situation and the money.  Video taping can be doctored, photos can be photoshopped, and it is, generally, a matter of he said/she said, and ebay takes the buyer side, to keep the buyer happy and returning, and since they aren't out anything.

You have to agree with the return for SNAD and you have to refund.  After the fact, you can - sometimes - appeal.  It is said it will help to have a police report number for the appeal, as well as a case number from the USPS from filing a mail fraud report.  IC3 report numbers are said to help, also.  It is suggested you have these lined up before you file the appeal - all of which can be done on-line.

Just be ready for the worst and hope for the best - you're dealing with 'people', and they come in all shapes and sizes.

Hope it all works out for you!

[enzo7117]

This just happened to me. My art item was returned deliberately damaged. I guess they believed they would be getting it free since I don't offer returns. Possibly angered by having to undergo the return process to get their money back.  95% of my customers are great , however, here on eBay a 95% isn't very good... 

[doubledz-a2z]

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others will file a police report when making an appeal 

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The Police will simply tell you to file a Civil Complaint which is typically a small claims lawsuit.  Contrary to folks giving out that advice here, they will not even entertain a report.       I would make sure that if you are conversing with your buyer you make sure to include that they return  ALL the items including the small parts.   It won't do you any good with ebay but it will let your buyer know you have a hunch what they are up to.    Plus if they are complaining the damage was done in shipping just let them know to save all packaging and ask when  is the best time for USPS to pick it all up for a damage claim.  And to provide photos for a claim.   It may deter the buyer  and change their mind if they were planning on sending back rocks or less than what they received.   You will still probably be out but I hate when sellers simply say return for full refund.  Let your buyer to some footwork.

[weschurch]

And most, if they are gaming the system will just laugh and return whatever they want. You are right about the police report though. As soon as they want a return YOU MIGHT AS WELL KISS the money goodbye. You better just hope you actually get your item back and its not damaged.

[lex-talon]

These toys are expensive and I can realistically see the buyer taking a figure or two out when returning. I've heard of the horrors of ebay not protecting sellers at all and have been a bit spooked by that.

That may or may not happen, who knows? The buyer can take a few valuable figures out when returning them. 

When you receive the items back, check to see if every single figure is there. If not, you can report the buyer. You will have to refund the buyer. Put the buyer on your BBL to avoid future problems.

[blueeggsandspam]

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@doubledz-a2z wrote:

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others will file a police report when making an appeal 

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The Police will simply tell you to file a Civil Complaint which is typically a small claims lawsuit.  Contrary to folks giving out that advice here, they will not even entertain a report.       I would make sure that if you are conversing with your buyer you make sure to include that they return  ALL the items including the small parts.   It won't do you any good with ebay but it will let your buyer know you have a hunch what they are up to.    Plus if they are complaining the damage was done in shipping just let them know to save all packaging and ask when  is the best time for USPS to pick it all up for a damage claim.  And to provide photos for a claim.   It may deter the buyer  and change their mind if they were planning on sending back rocks or less than what they received.   You will still probably be out but I hate when sellers simply say return for full refund.  Let your buyer to some footwork.

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This is dependent on the police station. Ours has a cyber crime unit and will take a report, as well as send it off to the buyer's local PD.

In addition to trying to file a police report, I always suggest filing a mail fraud complaint with the postal inspectors. At the very least, this can get a buyer on their radar.

[thevintagesilvershop]

Everyone has made good suggestions.  File a police report, report the buyer to Ebay, file with IC3, file a mail fraud report.  Then, take the return.  Just like in a B & M store, online sellers get stolen from.  And, just like a B & M store, you have to mitigate "shrinkage" in your pricing.  It's the only way you will come out ahead.  Sellers expecting Ebay to protect them are chasing something that leads nowhere.  You have to protect yourself.  I do it through a combination of my handling fee and my pricing. 

[billydurham]

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@thevintagesilvershop wrote:

Everyone has made good suggestions.  File a police report, report the buyer to Ebay, file with IC3, file a mail fraud report.  Then, take the return.  Just like in a B & M store, online sellers get stolen from.  And, just like a B & M store, you have to mitigate "shrinkage" in your pricing.  It's the only way you will come out ahead.  Sellers expecting Ebay to protect them are chasing something that leads nowhere.  You have to protect yourself.  I do it through a combination of my handling fee and my pricing. 

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A Idea I just had

If you think the Buyer is going to return a box of rocks or something.

Wait to open the return package that the buyer has sent you at the Post Office in front of the Postal Clerk  if your return address is a PO Box then you never had possession of the package the Postal Clerk has it before you , have the Postal Clerk open it before you get it.

If it is a box of rocks or something that is mail fraud - 25 years in jail for each offense .

That's my 2 Cents, worth every penny you paid for it.

[dtexley3]

Hi, sorry to hear this happening to you.

Everybody has already given you the steps you can take, here's the steps in a simple list.  You should also go to the post office and get the detailed tracking report as it will typically contain any notifications regarding delivery issues, including "damaged package".  

Then follow the steps below:

1. File mail fraud with USPS.  

2. File fraud complaint with ic3.gov

3. File with your local PD.  Insist on them taking a full report, and forwarding a copy to the buyer's PD.  With some departments you have to be insistent, remind them that mail fraud is a felony, not a civil matter.  Tell them a police report is required to make a claim with eBay.

4. Collect copies and records of all the above.

5. Submit all this along with the mail tracking to eBay.  Then call and ask for trust and safety. Have them review the documents and see if you can get the return closed in your favor.  If not, open an appeal and try again.

6. Rinse and repeat with Paypal if necessary.

Hopefully this will help.

[weschurch]

And the last step

Accept you've been taken

I wish people the best but having dealt with many of police stations and USPS officials the reality is its super hard to prove and 99% of the time their "investigations" are nothing more than "hoping you go away". 

All this to sell on Ebay? Yeah, I'll pass

[dtexley3]

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@weschurch wrote:

And the last step

Accept you've been taken

I wish people the best but having dealt with many of police stations and USPS officials the reality is its super hard to prove and 99% of the time their "investigations" are nothing more than "hoping you go away". 

All this to sell on Ebay? Yeah, I'll pass

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For a single report, you may be right, but the post office WILL act when they get multiple reports, which is why sellers should ALWAYS report.

eBay will sometimes refund the seller even if the buyer was refunded, especially if a police report is included.  I suspect one of the "hidden policies" states that they should only refund the buyer on appeal if a police report is included, but I don't know that for sure.

[mikeystoyz]

I file fraud reports on every scam that has happened to me.  This has been 4 times, 2 of the times I reported the guys had done it to a whole lot of other people.  They ended up doing 3 years I believe and 10 years later one of them pulled the same stunt and got another 5.  If enough people report something is done.  My item was only 50 bucks but if you multiply it by x, you get the picture.