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"Seller Protection" is a JOKE!!!

scgonzalez30
Enthusiast

I am a SAHM who hasn't sold on ebay for a few years (I have bought, but quit selling due to the crazy fees from both ebay and paypal).  I made a decision to sell a lot of used cloth diapers (I had a business where I made and sold cloth diapers and these were the ones I had made/used for my child).  I posted about 8 pictures and put detailed descriptions w/ each picture explaining any flaws or damage.  After the auction ended, I sent a "congrats, you won, item will ship after payment" type email.  Very nice, polite email.  No response, no payment.  24hrs later, I sent an email saying that payment is expected w/in 24hrs so as to not delay shipping...a very professional, polite way of reminding them to pay.  48hrs later, I reminded them that they had not paid and unless I hear from them or receive payment I will assume they don't plan to pay.  Still VERY professional, but firm.  I am not a store that allows 3,5, or 7 days to pay.  I feel it's rude to take forever to pay for something.  I understand if the auction ends during the day and the buyer pays that night (I usually give 24hrs because as a buyer mostly myself, I feel this is very doable and considerate to the seller), but to have no contact or payment after 48 hrs is rude.  So, sure enough I get a response saying that this lady hasn't gotten paid for items she is selling but once she does she will pay????!!!  Since when do you bid on an item if you can't afford to pay for?  Isn't this against ebay policy?  She claims she will get paid that day, so instead of canceling the auction and having to relist and hope they sell, I told her I would wait.  She pays w/in a couple hrs.  Great, I think...  So I ship immediately through paypal w/ tracking.  I did everything by the "book".


 


The very DAY she received the diapers she immediately emails me saying that "some of them are unuseable due to elastic issues" (this was described in the auction) and I didn't describe the item accurately and she wants a full refund!  Then, not even bestowing the same courtesy I gave her, she immediately opens a claim instead of giving me a chance to respond!   Well, due to the nature of these items, I don't know if she has used them on her child, and if so, it now represents sanitary issues and I don't feel comfortable reselling.  So, I told her no, I would not refund them, AS STATED IN THE AUCTION.  She files the claim w/ customer service.  Fine.  I feel she didn't want to pay in the first place (and even said she didn't have the money in an email...which I kept) and so she had planned all along to file for a refund once she got them.


 


This is what I found in ebay's "seller protection" (what a joke!): 


 


"For item not as described cases, sellers may protect themselves from losing a case if they provide clear documentation that the item was described accurately and consistently throughout the listing and all associated communication. For example, cases may be resolved in the seller's favor when the seller provides documentation that:


the buyer complains that the item is used, not new, and the listing and all associated communication clearly and consistently describes the item as used, or


a defect in the item was correctly described by the seller, or


the item was properly described, but the buyer didn't want it after they received it, or


the item was properly described but did not meet the buyer's expectations, or


the item has minor scratches and was listed as in used condition."


 


I did all these things.  Yet, w/in a few hrs ebay decided in favor of the buyer, who did not provide ANY proof that they were not as described.  She in fact emailed me and said that "some were unusable due to elastic issues" and then turned around in her claim and said the "diapers were destroyed and completely unusable"!!  LIES!!!  Yet, it seems as though ebay didn't look at the auction (to see ALL THE DETAILS REGARDING THE USED DIAPERS) or the emails between the buyer and myself (which are in my ebay messages)!  When I called to appeal I am told that they couldn't make a decision as to who is at fault so they decided for her!  Then stupid ebay needs to refund her!!  They have told her to return the items for a full refund including shipping.  I paid for shipping and so is USPS going to refund that $ to me...??? no, so why do I refund her shipping?  So, now I have to pay her the full refund plus extra money I am out to ship to her and I get back some cloth diapers that I am not unsure of where they have been.  They could have been near pets, on other childrens' bums, etc and I can't resell them w/o knowing.  If someone were to buy them and their child, like mine, has severe allergies to pets, I've just caused harm to the child.  Or if she used them and her child had a rash or infection, which isn't uncommon in babies, I can't sell them and potentially cause risk of infection to someone else! 


 


I am soooo frustrated because they completely overlooked my "evidence" and went w/ this buyer.  I feel it's because she has like 500+ transactions w/ 100% (mostly from selling) and I have 36 at 100%.  Obviously hers looks better than mine 😞  Ebay puts out this information as to how sellers can protect themselves and yet when it's followed they STILL choose the buyer!  And I get no customer service when I call!  If anyone knows how I can get this re-reviewed, I would appreciate it, as they won't let me appeal until I receive the items back (although the lady on the phone pretty much told me it wouldn't make a difference and I would have to show a lot of "proof" that the diapers were not in whatever condition when I sent them as when I got them back).


 


Sorry for the super long vent...I am just sooo upset about this. 


 

Message 1 of 31
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30 REPLIES 30

Re: "Seller Protection" is a JOKE!!!

moesgoodstuff
Enthusiast

I'm always amused when I can sense the ruler on its way. Its just like music building to a crescendo. 


 


It's sitting on the outside watching process of the conversation flow


Seeing the slow growth of understanding on one side of the conversation


Two or three people chime in trying to help...to no avail


 


WAP WAP WAP


 


I learn a lot...but I gotta tell ya it is funny.


 


I don't feel bad for anyone when it happens...I don't live on a one way street...I've already been hit once or twice...its ok... clarity and directness does not offend me.


 


but I gotta tell ya ....I laugh and smile when I see it on the way.


 


WAP WAP WAP


 


I mean really ....complaining about a buyer who didn't care for their used diapers...Really


I personally have very low standards...but even I would'nt try to sell used diapers...and then complain about it. But what do I know maybe they were Gucci or Coach...I didn't see pictures...but I know how the insides looked.

Message 16 of 31
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Re: "Seller Protection" is a JOKE!!!

Really.


 


Bleach will kill the AIDS virus. You're worried about diaper rash or allergies?


 


If detergent and bleach won't kill it...it didn't come out of a baby.


Just what do you think professional diaper services used back in the day?


Wash them way you normally do...and forget about it.


 


Nobody needs the life history of a diaper...chunky or smooth, we all know what they have been used for. Being clean when you sell them should be the only issue.

Message 17 of 31
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Re: "Seller Protection" is a JOKE!!!

negged = nagged   ...    typo !


 


I stand by everything else !


 


& yes, everyone sells here because they either need or want some xtra cash.....


 


but....


 


Your being so adament that the buyer pay lickety split does not take into account that the money is not yours to spend until at least 45 days have passed at which time the buyer can no longer ( cept CC's ) demand a refund.


 


 


@ moe.........Whap Whap..Whap.............& so on & so forth....



Who will save the river valley , that's my drinking water.! "Moxy Fruvous"
Message 18 of 31
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Re: "Seller Protection" is a JOKE!!!

 


As the OP returned I thought I'd address one point I've seen cause issues for other sellers, believing buyers will live up to your expectations. Thinking all 20 some odd million members will act in a manner you think they should is absurd, ain't gonna happen. I know it's been covered but adding my 2¢.


 


As the OP posted, expecting immediate payment and sending additional invoices besides the two that eBay sends before the 4 day wait period that the UIA can kick in is asking for trouble as the OP found out. IMO the sending of multiple invoices, besides ebay's, sent a message to buyer they must pay...and then the OP faces a SNAD that they lost. Set up the UIA and let eBay do the dirty work, send the invoices-file the UID-close the case-leave the ID a slap & re-list the item for you, easy-peasy.

The other problem I see is selling items that have issues, in this case the elastic. Anytime you sell something that is not perfect as used, leaves you open to a SNAD that the buyer will win. Noting the issues in your description with great pics still leaves it open to buyer perception and eBay's decision.

Offa da soapbox!



The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.
Message 19 of 31
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Re: "Seller Protection" is a JOKE!!!

Yep!  there are no seller protection! full stop!, Seller protection only works if the buyer looses, therfore if buyer wins, then seller looses, and doesn't matter if neither party were guilty. If only one party can win, then how can buyer protection works at the same time as seller protection.

I am a seller who has turned close to £2 million in sales on ebay, not a sigle negative feedback, and all feedback to date the best you can get.

One buyer recently filed a protection case, because he refused to return the faulty part as i didn't put a "shipping lable in it", i had already sent him the replacement, my policy says that any return will be at Buyers cost, and i also selected the ebay return policy, where "buyer covers return" is ticked, So i though for the sake of £7 or so, I offered to pay the guy back the return cost on presentation of the amount by issueing a refund to his paypal account, But he said he couldn't be bothered and turned the case into a claim.I spoke to eBay and the 1st guy was very helpfull, He passed me to  a lady in the resolution centre as he saw with all the communication i have had with the buyer, that i was very professional and bent backward to help this customer out, she stated " some times there is only so much you can do sir", and they could see that the way i handled the situation was Tops++++. but here is the irony!

 

They told me despite the best quality effort on my part, they are almost no doubt going to rule in favour of the customer!

you know why?

 

A/ Because they have empowered the customer with too much power by raising them to "god" like possition, you can't leave them a negative feedback, although they may deserve one.No different to giving absolute power to a dictator!

 

B/ Even if ebay rules in the sellers favour, the Buyer can still gat a charge-back initiated through its credit card company, and likely to get its moneyback.

 

C/ With the new ebay campain that more or less says "if you don't get what you thought you were going to get , we will give you your money back" We all know people have different expectation, if you bought a loaf of bread from tesco with poppy seed, one may have a few less seed on it, does that make it not as described???, a second hand laptop perhaps! with 2 scratches, and one with 3, does that make the one with 3 scratches not as describe?

 

So having worked out that nothing a seller can do well matters?Why should any one be bothered to sell on ebay, when there are gumtree, the rainforest, and i can see why some sellers just become despondent and carry on getting neutral and negative, as being overnice is too time consuming and not really worth it.I think once you loose that 100% feedback, anything else would never really matter and no matter what you do will take it back to 100%, and I think that's a better place to be, as i can see that the extra effort and the pressure becomes more bearable, And allows you to confront the situation as is with no fear!

 

My buyer was trying to scam me i have no doubt about it, i have proof  of which i sent him a copy as i keep record of all the test we do, He was obviously peeed off about that and i can only think he tried to retaliate.

 

But ebay with its feedback policy is the only guilty pary here to allow this kind of scenario to unfold.

 

so any seller out there, think well!! is this a kind of market you want to nurture? Is this a model you agree with?, with fees at 10%+3.4%, do you do enought volume to justify your own google feed? i.e pay-per click, I rekon I can get the same amount of sale from the £1000+ I pay ebay every month on my own webside with a google feed! I am very disillusioned and thinking on my out strategy, of course like the saying goes " never burn your bridges in case you had to come back",It will take time, but i sure am out of here!

Message 20 of 31
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Re: "Seller Protection" is a JOKE!!!

 £1000+ I pay ebay every month

 

you have good dsr's

you have no negs

 

and ...what?...one **bleep**py buyer is chasing you from this site ???wow1.png



Who will save the river valley , that's my drinking water.! "Moxy Fruvous"
Message 21 of 31
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Re: "Seller Protection" is a JOKE!!!

Let me get this straight....you have £2 million in sales, no neg feedback, and you're having a bad day?

 

Takes all kinds I guess....

Message 22 of 31
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Re: "Seller Protection" is a JOKE!!!


@network-servers wrote:

Yep!  there are no seller protection! full stop!, Seller protection only works if the buyer looses, therfore if buyer wins, then seller looses, and doesn't matter if neither party were guilty. If only one party can win, then how can buyer protection works at the same time as seller protection.

I am a seller who has turned close to £2 million in sales on ebay, not a sigle negative feedback, and all feedback to date the best you can get.

One buyer recently filed a protection case, because he refused to return the faulty part as i didn't put a "shipping lable in it", i had already sent him the replacement, my policy says that any return will be at Buyers cost, and i also selected the ebay return policy, where "buyer covers return" is ticked, So i though for the sake of £7 or so, I offered to pay the guy back the return cost on presentation of the amount by issueing a refund to his paypal account, But he said he couldn't be bothered and turned the case into a claim.I spoke to eBay and the 1st guy was very helpfull, He passed me to  a lady in the resolution centre as he saw with all the communication i have had with the buyer, that i was very professional and bent backward to help this customer out, she stated " some times there is only so much you can do sir", and they could see that the way i handled the situation was Tops++++. but here is the irony!

 

They told me despite the best quality effort on my part, they are almost no doubt going to rule in favour of the customer!

you know why?

 

A/ Because they have empowered the customer with too much power by raising them to "god" like possition, you can't leave them a negative feedback, although they may deserve one.No different to giving absolute power to a dictator!

 

B/ Even if ebay rules in the sellers favour, the Buyer can still gat a charge-back initiated through its credit card company, and likely to get its moneyback.

 

C/ With the new ebay campain that more or less says "if you don't get what you thought you were going to get , we will give you your money back" We all know people have different expectation, if you bought a loaf of bread from tesco with poppy seed, one may have a few less seed on it, does that make it not as described???, a second hand laptop perhaps! with 2 scratches, and one with 3, does that make the one with 3 scratches not as describe?

 


Cash is king.  Customers have the cash, so they are king.  They may not always be right; but they are still king.  eBay knows where their fee money comes from, the pockets of buyers spending money here.

 

You should not have sent a replacement until the customer returned the defective item.  Then they would have lost the dispute, since they couldn't be bothered to return the item.

 

A) In case you haven't yet realized it, your customers do have absolute power over your selling, feedback or not.  Your customers can sack you at any time.  If they decide not buy from you, you're done.

 

B) True anywhere online.

 

C) Yes, and yes.  Though minor variations are not supposed to be considered in BP cases, the fact is eBay doesn't have the physical item in front of them to compare with the listing.  And remember, customers are king.  So, they will nearly always rule in the buyers favor.  You can plan ahead for this so that it doesn't affect you financially.

 

No store or seller who stays in business for a long time will maintain 100% customer satisfaction.  None.  If you want 100% ratings all the time, go buy a book of gold star stickers to reward yourself whenever you want.  If you'd rather make money selling stuff, you're going to take a hit every so often.  Yes, the first negative stings.  You'll get over it.

 

That rainforest does look pretty lush, eh?.  But many of their policies, particularly buyer protection, are stricter than eBay's.  And virtually no one leaves feedback over there.  Still if it's profitable for you, go for it.

Message 23 of 31
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Re: "Seller Protection" is a JOKE!!!

I just started selling again after receiving a special promotion offer. I saw the "Seller Protection" link and decided to see what ebay was actually doing. Here's what their Orwellian doublespeek: "The eBay Seller Protection policy spells out all the ways you’re protected when you sell on eBay. It covers: Feedback and detailed seller ratings eBay Money Back Guarantee cases The Hassle-free returns process Unpaid items The Global Shipping Program" Does anyone see anything that show "buyer protection"? I especially like "Unpaid Items" what does that mean? That I'll have unpaid items? Most of my things that are not selling, could easily sell for more at a tag sale and with ebay the seller still has to pay the shipping - boy times have changed!!!! Just wondering why ebay can't negotiate good shipping rates or are they sucking a good chunk of profits from their cut of the shipping? And they wonder why their shares are dropping.... hello Craigslist and tag sales.
Message 24 of 31
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Re: "Seller Protection" is a JOKE!!!

Used diaper's ? You won't win....nothing you can do...eat the refund...and go on with your life ...it happens, part of dealing with ebay's messed up rule's .... That's Why it's called BUYER PROTECTION'' --IT,,   PROTECT'S THE BUYER  .....And SELLER PROTECTION... ALSO  ,PROTECT'S THE BUYER....GET IT ?

Message 25 of 31
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Re: "Seller Protection" is a JOKE!!!

Please don't dredge up 3-year old threads, especially to comment on used diapers.

Message 26 of 31
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Re: "Seller Protection" is a JOKE!!!


@thatsallfolks wrote:

Please don't dredge up 3-year old threads, especially to comment on used diapers.


Smiley Very Happy...so, are you poo pooing this thread?Smiley Happy ...not to mention the age of this thread would make the "baby" about 4 years old now and hopefully no need for diapers!

How much better life would be, if a liar's pants really did catch fire!
Message 27 of 31
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Re: "Seller Protection" is a JOKE!!!

I agree it is a joke. I'm dealing with a similar problem now- buyer claimed item is inauthentic but is absolutely lying and eBay has sided with her. What eBay customer service told me is to put "items sold as is" and that supposedly covers your butt from claims like this. I'm furious cause I feel like the eBay and the woman are basically calling me a liar.
Message 28 of 31
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Re: "Seller Protection" is a JOKE!!!

@roma.kelle

 

Coach purse or sunglasses?


Everyone has options. Just be sure the best option is right for you.
Message 29 of 31
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Re: "Seller Protection" is a JOKE!!!

I'm sorry for what you went through. I totally agree with you. eBay has gone down to **bleep**s, regardless of what peope say. 

 

I honestly think eBay's business model is very one-sided (on the buyer's side). If they keep this up, soon, all sellers will be businesses from China. Might as well get bought by Alibaba, since they are a better version of eBay in everyway. 

 

eBay sided with a buyer for an item that I was selling (40+ days ago)... so stupid. Anyways, I'm done selling on ebay and I hope they go bankrupt. 

Message 30 of 31
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