eBay versus antique malls - comparing apples with oranges

[pickapaper]

I've been selling on eBay for 25 years.  I've never sold on any of the other online platforms but we have always had booths in antique malls.   

Right now, we have three booths in a mall.  For that privilege, we pay almost $1,000.00 per month, i.e. $766 per month for rent plus another $200 for "administrative fees" and electricity   We also pay credit card fees which, of course, fluctuate each month.  That means that each month, the first thousand dollars goes to the mall before we even start to get a check.  Some months we do well, some months we do well to even make rent.  Why do we pay that big amount?  Because it's a place to sell furniture and things that are too big or too heavy or any other reason that something isn't "suitable" for eBay.

At malls, you pay rent and fees whether you sell anything or not.  Every time I read on here about how unhappy someone is with the fees they pay eBay, I just want to tell them to try other venues if they think it will be any better.   I would imagine that any of the other online sites are pretty much the same as eBay with fees and policies but I don't know. 

[meme6253]

The one renting out the space in either scenario,is where the money is made!

[kath.layn]

I hear ya.  About 10 years ago I got started reselling at an antique mall.  It was fun, but I had to pay the monthly fee, plus a percentage of every sale, plus I had to “volunteer” 8 hours a month working in the mall.  This was 8 hours in addition to whatever time I spent managing my booth. Overall It just didn't make sense for me.  Does eBay sometimes make me crazy?  Yes.  But considering everything it’s preferable to brick and mortar.  For me.

[simba6]

I suspect many of those people never did try to sell in other venues.  If they had, they would know eBay is not all that bad a place to sell.

[farmalljr]

IMO.....

Lots of people who have a booth in an antique mall don't know much about business. In your example, it costs you 1K a month for the space. Even if your margins are 50%, you need to sell a minimum of 2K a month to break even (no profit).  You also need to spend time sourcing, cleaning, restoring, pricing and tidying up your booth space. Lots of labor/time and investment before the sale.  There isn't any money in it, it's your hobby. Yes, you enjoy it, but that's a hobby not a business. 

Selling on eBay, you do ALL the work. On top of what work you will do for a booth, you are also packing and shipping. You are creating a listing. You are storing inventory. And most importantly, there are no "all sales are final" on eBay. You are on the hook for up to 180 days after the sale, for potential charge backs. For this, eBay demands at least 13% but in reality you will likely need to pay promotions, adding at least another 10% to the fees. eBay is also picking the winners and losers. They are choosing who gets traffic. That's like the mall blocking off your booth for whatever percent of the foot traffic that comes in the door. 

Neither of these scenarios are good for sellers. The shop owner and eBay are the ONLY ones who win. It's not the sellers. 

People are free to complain about the costs. Because there is a point to it. It's not just that the fees are higher than most sellers think they should be. It's also about the value YOU receive, since you the seller, are actually the one paying for the "service". Buyers pay for absolutely nothing other than the items they buy. Sellers pay ALL of the fees. The fees come directly from the money the seller receives. I don't want to here how buyers pay any of it. Sellers directly are the ones paying. As the one paying for something, there should be a fair amount of value received in return. Most sellers will not agree they receive a fair value for the price we pay. 

[pickapaper]

You make some very good points which I mostly agree with.  The one thing I disagree with is your statement that people who have a booth in a mall do not know about business.  In our case, we do know about business and we know what kind of profit margins we have.  We have been in the antiques and collectables business for about 50 years but have never had to depend on any of it to pay our bills so the profit margin was not as much a necessity as it might be for some people.  Yes, it was always a "hobby" that gave us extra money to "play with". 

We joke about antique and collectables is a "drug of choice".  We do it because we love it.  It gets frustating at times but it never gets old. 

[dhbookds]

Neither of these scenarios are good for sellers. The shop owner and eBay are the ONLY ones who win. It's not the sellers.

General statements like that always raise my hackles. There are MANY different reasons people sell on Ebay or elsewhere.......  "Winning" doesn't always mean money to everyone.  Staying active and productive to an older person can mean alot to that seller....... Stay at home Moms, caretakers, the disabled.....all may/can find benefits for them, which the average person may not see.......... 

[squinkercat59]

I've been in antique malls since 1985. I have always done well, and right now I am doing better than I ever have. Don't forget there are benefits also - like very strict no return policies, very important if you sell vintage clothing like I do. It gives me a situation where I can rotate merchandise (I'm in three malls, two different cities) instead of accepting lowball offers. My working hours give me an opportunity to see what people are actually buying. It gives me an opportunity to pick up some nice vintage or antique items from other "dealers" that don't know how to price things. Like the original poster mentioned, it's nice to have a place to sell furniture or other very large/heavy items, or fragile glass items. It gets me out of the house instead of sitting behind my computer all day long.  This is what I do for a living, and have for quite a while now. It's not just a hobby for me, and I get out of it, what I put into it.

I used to have my own store (not strictly antiques, but more of a gift/book store) and I had to pay rent, utilities, insurance, employees, etc.).  Fees are all relative. Of course, we would all like lower fees. But for me, being in antique malls and on Ebay is much more cost-effective than owning my own store and gives me a lot more flexibility with my time.  Different things work for different people.

[vintagecraze50]

Yes, that is where the bigger money is made overall for that landlord. 

[tobaccocardyahoo]

There are plenty of people with business savvy who make money at antique malls and on Ebay. It requires having merchandise which is desirable in those channels to succeed, and adequate profit margins.

The old antique dealer's rule of thumb - doubling your money on your sales, does not always work well.

And as readers of this forum know well, some merchandise is prone to shrinkage, in either venue.

I stopped selling things with only a 50% gross margin years ago. I buy in lots and look for quick cost payback for a large quantity with just a few sales.

Wherever the are quantities of antiques and collectibles for sale there are opportunities to know more than the seller, but usually the opportunities are on too few items to make a difference.

I learned selling in the antique malls that the shop owners had buying opportunities the renters did not. Their profit was not just the rent. People brought in items to sell or called them out to bid on estate clearance, or do house cleanouts. I had good relationships with some and got to buy what they had no knowledge or interest in, for close to what they paid - effectively nothing.

My current buying strategy pays effectively nothing.

[joliztoyco]

You're right.
You're comparing apples and oranges. 
If I ever start selling old heavy furniture, I'll re-read your "tips".
And let us know when the "landlord" at your mall starts placing other sellers merchandise in your "booths".
They can call it "promoted listings".

[farmalljr]

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@pickapaper wrote:

You make some very good points which I mostly agree with.  The one thing I disagree with is your statement that people who have a booth in a mall do not know about business.  In our case, we do know about business and we know what kind of profit margins we have.  We have been in the antiques and collectables business for about 50 years but have never had to depend on any of it to pay our bills so the profit margin was not as much a necessity as it might be for some people.  Yes, it was always a "hobby" that gave us extra money to "play with". 

We joke about antique and collectables is a "drug of choice".  We do it because we love it.  It gets frustating at times but it never gets old. 

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Even when you disagree with my point, your response just shows I was correct. There is nothing wrong with hobbies. There is nothing wrong with making a little folding money for your pocket. A business is not a hobby. You can't change how a business is defined or functions, to fit what you want that to mean. 

Divide the hours worked, into your actual profit every month. Every single hour you are working on your "business". If most people with "hobby" businesses were honest, they aren't making minimum wage. 

[farmalljr]

So if you need activity, take a walk around the block. We are talking about losing money. Your finances are just as important as your health. Without money and without health, life get pretty miserable. 

We have seen posters here who relied on this platform for making money, even if it was an extra source to get by. We have also seen them get screwed by chargebacks, false returns, and being hidden. 

The house in the casino always wins. The casino exists to make money for itself. Just because the occasional person "wins" and leaves with more than they spent, it doesn't mean they are winners. It just means they weren't the sucker that day. 

[chapeau-noir]

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@farmalljr wrote:

IMO.....

Lots of people who have a booth in an antique mall don't know much about business. In your example, it costs you 1K a month for the space. Even if your margins are 50%, you need to sell a minimum of 2K a month to break even (no profit).  You also need to spend time sourcing, cleaning, restoring, pricing and tidying up your booth space. Lots of labor/time and investment before the sale.  There isn't any money in it, it's your hobby. Yes, you enjoy it, but that's a hobby not a business. 

Selling on eBay, you do ALL the work. On top of what work you will do for a booth, you are also packing and shipping. You are creating a listing. You are storing inventory. And most importantly, there are no "all sales are final" on eBay. You are on the hook for up to 180 days after the sale, for potential charge backs. For this, eBay demands at least 13% but in reality you will likely need to pay promotions, adding at least another 10% to the fees. eBay is also picking the winners and losers. They are choosing who gets traffic. That's like the mall blocking off your booth for whatever percent of the foot traffic that comes in the door. 

Neither of these scenarios are good for sellers. The shop owner and eBay are the ONLY ones who win. It's not the sellers. 

People are free to complain about the costs. Because there is a point to it. It's not just that the fees are higher than most sellers think they should be. It's also about the value YOU receive, since you the seller, are actually the one paying for the "service". Buyers pay for absolutely nothing other than the items they buy. Sellers pay ALL of the fees. The fees come directly from the money the seller receives. I don't want to here how buyers pay any of it. Sellers directly are the ones paying. As the one paying for something, there should be a fair amount of value received in return. Most sellers will not agree they receive a fair value for the price we pay. 

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But they are...or should be. There's no way to NOT factor that kind of thing into the equation or whole point is lost.

[farmalljr]

THAT is creative accounting. YOU are paying fees to EBAY. When you write those fees off your taxes, you are making eBay the receiver of those fees. If BUYERS were paying fees, they would be claiming it. YOU pay the fees. You are only accounting for the fees IN your pricing as part of the formula for costs. 

If I have to buy boxes to ship in, I have to factor in that price. They are my expenses. So the buyer isn't paying that box price, I am. It's factored into my costs. 

People want to keep playing semantics. I mean no offense by my response, but passing the costs on to the buyer isn't the same as the buyer "paying my costs". Fees, supplies, ect, are an operating expense. 

Buyers paying my "costs" would be like a fuel surcharge as a separate line item on an invoice. Not costs that are built into the price and hidden.