Conterfit items policy being used to delete anything not original paper version?

[daemontech]

I was just told that the ebay policy against counterfeits, also means that anything being sold as an electronic/scanned version that was originally sold/available as a print version, Ex old Sears catalogs, would violate this policy now.  Does this sound crazy to you?
It seems like the policy people are interpreting the policy to the letter (anything originally sold as paper cannot be sold as a scanned version on a "preloaded flash drive or CD/DVD" instead of the spirit (You cannot sell your Mix Tape on a flash drive).
It seems like Ebay needs to reword their policy so things are less up to interpretation or Ebay restrictions may be going off the rails.

Am I wrong in this?

[mtgraves7984]

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@daemontech wrote:

Yes for Sears, now show me Montgomery Wards, Lafayette Radio, Concord Radio, Heathkit, Dynaco, etc. etc..
There is no company any longer.

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[yuzuha]

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@daemontech wrote:

Do you thing a scanned version of an old manual, that is not available any longer from the company for a product you own should not be allowed?  Do you think Say old Montgomery Wards  catalogs, a company long gone, should not be available as a scanned version? Really? What does that say about the preservation and sharing of history?

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You are generally allowed to scan and distribute those items for free for archival purposes. You are NOT allowed to sell them for money.

[krazzykats]

Blame it on all the ones who are selling unauthorized copies across the board.  Digital sales are a problem for the original creators/originators who never receive a dime off the digital copies.  

An old Sears catalog may not be high on the list of copyrighted materials copied, but does that give anyone the right to reproduce it digitally?  It is still another's work being reproduced for monies the originators never see.  (Or the families, etc...).

And what about old instruction manuals that are reproduced for items no longer made? 

I have a large collection of Singer Sewing Manuals for machines made in the early 1900s for example.  I had the idea once to reproduce them all on a single CD and sell it.  And I spent a lot of time and money digitizing them.  But I never followed through.

Don't get me started on game tokens and attributes being sold digitally. 🤣

[daemontech]

"You are generally allowed to scan and distribute those items for free for archival purposes. You are NOT allowed to sell them for money."  So if you take the time to make things available and sell them as a collated collection you should not be able to sell them?  And not even necessarily them, but sell the fact that they are a collection made easily available to you being sold for the time it takes to do so and the media in which they are on?
Some sites offer things available for "free download" but they are covered in ads. So they are also making money for doing so. Would you be against them doing that as well just because it is an indirect form of payment.  Heck some sites won't even let you access them if they detect you have an ad blocker.

Also again there are many many other listings for the same, and even their AI said they were fine. 

[dirk12955]

I had a another thought:     Out there in the ether-net there 

is probably somebody selling re-printed copies of Instruction manuals.

Maybe for a 1940 desktop Philco radio

Or a 1915 Edison Phonograph

Or the instructions to Monopoly  or Scrabble

[daemontech]

"I have a large collection of Singer Sewing Manuals for machines made in the early 1900s for example. I had the idea once to reproduce them all on a single CD and sell it. And I spent a lot of time and money digitizing them. But I never followed through."  It seems rather sad if this was because you were worried about running afoul of Singer.  If they sell them then yes, they could be upset. Yet also some companies like this and consider it a feature of their history and reliability.  I bet if you contacted them you could get permission.
But the same cannot apply to companies long out of business.

Also just as a mention, CA passed the Right To Repair law sadly yet to take affect because many companies refuse to sell customers schematics, service manuals or even parts for items regardless of age.  Requiring you to have to often ship an item to their repair center and pay whatever fee they demand. I have dealt with many companies who's policies state that as a warranty center you are not allowed to share the manual, service manual or anything to the customer.  Because they would rather you throw it away and buy a new one than share information on their item.

[tobaccocardyahoo]

Do not assume that because a company is out of business its intellectual property is not owned and protected by anyone and you can use it.

There are companies which specialize in buying copyrights, trademarks and patents from the bankruptcy and enforcing them.

Sears and Montgomery Ward trademarks are owned and enforced.

Ebay is playing catch up in intellectual property rights protection and gradually catching more and more violators. The actual number of listings which violate IP rights is staggering, and IP protection companies are thriving on a piecework basis seeking settlements or filing for TRO's blocking seller accounts or suing directly if the seller does not pay a settlement which usually exceeds what they make selling these items.

Instead of complaining about this advice, you should say thank you for the penalties they are helping you avoid.

[krazzykats]

If you are reproducing other's work, selling gaming cheats, selling counterfeits, or anything else not duly authorized by the creators, you may be getting in trouble as policy changes take place. 

Securing item integrity in items such as postage stamps, coins, jewelry, clothing and handbags, and things, as "real, authorized, authentic" has become more challenging in the digital world.  And to ensure that everyone follows the same law on copyrights, there will be some added enforcement so everyone plays by the same rules.

It just takes time for the laws to catch up, and they will.

Find something else to sell.

[daemontech]

"There are companies which specialize in buying copyrights, trademarks and patents from the bankruptcy and enforcing them."  This is sometimes sadly true.  See a scene in the Beanie Babies movie how someone distributing material helping people during the craze value an item, which was actually a benefit to them, was actually sued(or sent a cease and desist I cannot remember which)  by their monopolistic crazed CEO.

I reported several such items as a test that were almost identical to mine and got a reply that their AI thought they were fine.  2 months ago with something similar I was told I was fine as long as I remove the word PDF from the listing (crazy right? )  So no, it doesn't seem it's "policy" but whatever someone can be convinced is a policy violation.

"Instead of complaining about this advice, you should say thank you for the penalties they are helping you avoid." I would rather have someone contact me directly than a company decide to remove an item because they think that maybe someone may want to sue me for selling it.
If I sold a collection of repair tips for old ford cars. should Ebay cancel my listing because they are worried I might get sued or that they may get sued by Ford?  That seems rather Orwellian. 

[luckythewinner]

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@daemontech wrote:

@mtgraves7984 

Please explain how you think  say Sears Catalogs that have been scanned and sold as a collection are "Bootlegs"?

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Bootleg generally means "unauthorized".

Are you authorized by Sears to copy their catalogs?

[daemontech]

Ok, please look at these items,
https://www.ebay.com/itm/333769148666 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/333878910951
https://www.ebay.com/itm/333992558667
https://www.ebay.com/itm/333769125382

And tell me how it is OK according to Ebay then? And the multitude of similar items that it will also show as Sponsored Items along with it.  If you report them to Ebay their AI replies that they are fine. IS their Ai wrong?

[daemontech]

I used it as a quick example. It was not Sears.  It was catalogs from a long out of business company named Lafayette Radio that most people have never heard of so I used a name people might know.

[albertabrightalberta]

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@mtgraves7984 wrote:

@daemontech 

I'll go you one better. I'll let Sears explain it.

 Does Sears Holdings give permission to reproduce catalog pages or images from its catalogs, and or o...

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Great find, @mtgraves7984 !

[itsjustasprain]

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@daemontech wrote:

I used it as a quick example. It was not Sears.  It was catalogs from a long out of business company named Lafayette Radio that most people have never heard of so I used a name people might know.

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I remember Lafayette Electronics. They were a competitor to Radio Shack back in the day. Their Lafayette radios and such can be found for sale here on Ebay.

As for your original issue - the problem is that by selling your own scanned copies of their copyrighted material you are setting yourself up as a publisher but you do not have the rights to reproduce it. It would be the same if selling a mix tape because you do not have the rights to reproduce the artists recordings.

[albertabrightalberta]

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@daemontech wrote:

Yes for Sears, now show me Montgomery Wards, Lafayette Radio, Concord Radio, Heathkit, Dynaco, etc. etc..
There is no company any longer.

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Ask and ye shall receive: 

Montgomery Wards - https://www.wards.com/cm/terms-of-use.html

• and the applicable portion: b) You have permission to display and electronically copy and print hard copy portions of the Site for Your lawful, personal, family or household (but non-commercial) use. You agree that the hard copy versions of the Materials remain Our property, subject to the terms of this Agreement. You agree not to copy any of the Materials onto Your Device's hard drive or any other electronic storage media, other than as reasonably necessary and incident to utilizing the rights granted to You in the preceding paragraph (a).
• and 
• Unless as expressly permitted in this Agreement, You agree not to, and You will not permit others to, (i) license, sublicense, assign, convey or transfer, the rights and licenses granted hereunder; (ii) publish, display, disclose, sell, rent, lease, store, loan, distribute, transmit, publicly display or perform, co-brand, frame, host, outsource, or otherwise commercially exploit the Site or Materials; (iii) copy or reproduce the Site or Materials or any part thereof, in any form; (iv) remove or alter any trademark, logo, copyright or other proprietary notices, legends, symbols or labels in the Site or Materials; (v) use the Site or Materials in any fashion that may infringe any patent, copyright, trademark, trade secret, or any other intellectual property or proprietary right of Ours, Our third-party providers, or any other third-party; (vi) modify, translate, adapt, disassemble, reverse engineer, decompile, reverse compile, or create compilations or derivative works of, the Site or Materials, or any parts thereof (except to the extent applicable laws specifically prohibit such restriction), or (vii) use the Site or Materials for any service bureau, time-sharing, resale or similar purposes.

Heathkit - https://www.heathkit.com/legal.html

• Heath Company and Heathkit products and publication are covered by copyrights, both through the Berne Convention internationally and through explicit registration. Heath Company and Heathkit publications are of world-famous quality, are valuable property, and are copyrighted worldwide by law whether or not marked.
  
  "Fair use" provides no safe harbor for creating, transmitting, storing or selling copies of Heath Company or Heathkit publications in any format or medium. Copyright violators worldwide may be subject to automatic severe statutory penalties.

Enough @daemontech ?