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*BEWARE* Fake Citizen Eco-Drive Watches

I recently got burned on a counterfeit watch that is listed as "Authentic".

I was initially very pleased with the watch until I received a message from another person that had been ripped off by this guy.
I wasn't sure that my watch was a fake until this guy was able to tell me what my serial number was.
He knew my serial number because it was the same as his serial number and the same as ALL OF THE SERIAL NUMBERS because these watches are fake.

After that I began to pay more attention to the detail of the watch and discovered a few flaws.
1. It loses about a minute every other day, you'd think they could make a counterfeit that at least keeps good time.... must be easier said than done.
2. The illumination is wrong. Only the hands illuminate (and they are very faint) An AUTHENTIC watch would illuminate the hands, the "12" and each of the tick marks around the dial.

So I have started the dispute process.
Initial replies stated that my money would be refunded, so I was fine with that... I just need the ridiculous Chinese address so I could send it out.
Once the guy responds with his address he tells me "Send regular air post, no tracking number"... uh-huh, sure thing pal.
Then hidden amongst the wall of text I notice "I will exchange for you"
Uh, excuse me?

We have discussed a refund for days and then he tries to sneak in an "exchange offer" for a watch I would send with no tracking.

Now, I know this guys is a counterfeiter and he is deliberately trying to be deceptive in the dispute process so now I really don't trust him at all.

I'm curious if I can have ebay "middle" this deal for me.
i.e. Give me my money back BEFORE I send this guy his crappy fake watch?

Sorry for the wordiness, I'm a little frazzled by this whole ordeal.

Message 1 of 38
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37 REPLIES 37

*BEWARE* Fake Citizen Eco-Drive Watches

Definitely get ebay involved. They take this kind of thing seriously even though they don't take a lot of other things seriously like sellers being able to give non-payers negative feedback. Anyway call the 866 number and I'm sure they will help you get this rectified. Now this guy should be stopped from selling on ebay. I bet that never happens since he is a fairly high volume seller. Good Luck!
Message 2 of 38
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*BEWARE* Fake Citizen Eco-Drive Watches

well, the first thing to check out is where the seller is located. i never buy stuff from sellers in korea, china, or any suspicious countries. actually korea and china sellers are okay from some cheap stuff as they will eventually ship you something, some sellers in other countries will just take your money and let ebay handle the loss. (fyi, ebay/paypal doesn't have a clue how to chase someone in those countries, so basically if you file a complaint and it gets honored, ebay is sucking up the loss.)

again, rule of thumb is, no china or korea based sellers on any non-electronic stuff costing > $50. or you will almost be assured to receive a fake.
Message 3 of 38
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*BEWARE* Fake Citizen Eco-Drive Watches

Yeah, lesson learned.
I was a bit skeptical of this guy but he has 99.5% positive feedback.

Then I found a thread on this message board that claimed that many of these cheap watches were genuine.
That they were somehow funneled into Asia via grey market channels to capitalize on the very large (and poor) market there, much the way that American Pharmaceutical Companies sell the exact same product overseas for a fraction of the cost they sell it domestically for.

It seemed like a plausible explanation and I was hooked.
I have been out $120 since September and likely won't be refunded until November sometime.
Even then I will be out the $30 dollars it cost me to return the fake watch to China.

If the guy would simply list the item as a "replica" I think he would find plenty of people willing to purchase it for the price he is asking.
I am thoroughly disappointed in how this process has worked out for me, I expect ebay to protect buyers from fraudulent sellers like this even though I understand it can be a bit of an overwhelming task.
Message 4 of 38
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*BEWARE* Fake Citizen Eco-Drive Watches

sad and somewhat true,

there are a lot of honest, hard working sellers of fine watches here in Korea, but most do not sell online

so if you're dealing with online purchases of (new) brand name items, I would stay away from all the asian countries altogether

(it's true that Japan and Singapore have strict rules against fake items, but ask anyone from those countries and they'll tell you it's quite rampant there, too)

besides, the VAT is really high in Korea, it's very difficult to find a good deal on brand name items here

pre-owned/used items is a different story
a lot of people here are 'trendy' and they go through stuff quickly

and in the case of pre-owned watches from Hong Kong, I have one word to say: casinos
a lot do lose their watches gambling

but as someone already pointed out;
brand name + online purchase + asian country = best to stay away, unless you're very very certain
Message 5 of 38
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*BEWARE* Fake Citizen Eco-Drive Watches

So much for ebay doing anything about this.

I just got an email back from ebay support saying they "understand how frustrating it can be to receive a DAMAGED item"

Did they not even read my complaint?
Or are they unwilling to acknowledge the issue of counterfeit merchandise on their site?

This fiasco has soured me on ebay all together so I'll probably be doing all of my shopping at more reliable sites in the future.
Message 6 of 38
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*BEWARE* Fake Citizen Eco-Drive Watches

gunniejames
Scout
Most of the fakes from china; sold online are just junk!

But HK A+++ is just Darn scary!

I would put korea and japan in a "different league". They Do exist, Don't get me wrong, but they wouldn't be selling on ebay. Most would not be able to spot a fake from korea or japan and be in here to talk about how they got ripped off. There's just not enough incentive; as the Won, Yen,and U.S. Dollar is about the same. The risk over the rewards... just not there like china.

China is a counterfeit haven and the rewards are high; Low to No risk. once the money is converted; from U.S. Dollar to the chinese yuan...

If someone from china sold a few Daytona's a year; Life is good
Message 7 of 38
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*BEWARE* Fake Citizen Eco-Drive Watches

sorry to hear about what happened, scipione31,

and that (email from eBay) is just utterly frustrating and demoralizing

does anyone know if he can take this to the police?

that response from ebay is totally unacceptable
Message 8 of 38
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*BEWARE* Fake Citizen Eco-Drive Watches

btw, perhaps we can start making a list of sellers who sells fake items ... may not be able to post them here, but someone should be able to post them somewhere - and have a link to it from here
Message 9 of 38
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*BEWARE* Fake Citizen Eco-Drive Watches

gunniejames
Scout
I under impression ebay does not care, their are way to many.

power sellers seem to be almost "untouchable".
Message 10 of 38
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*BEWARE* Fake Citizen Eco-Drive Watches

gunniejames
Scout
this whole post have become a big contradiction.

citizens are japan made watches, as are seiko's.meaning they are "Asian Made" they are more effected by the counterfeit market then we.

someone mentioned korea and electronics? where do you think most of the electronics are made? check your flat screens and cell phones? It just might say samsung or LG on them. they take huge hit's from china's counterfeit market.

U.S. made items or U.S. corporations aren't really impacted; directly by the counterfeit markets; Yes. the "Ripple Effect" is huge and devastating to our economy.But that tells you just how much of a demand there is on knock off's. That's inferutable evidence.

wait till the holiday seasons; if you think it's bad now.
Message 11 of 38
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*BEWARE* Fake Citizen Eco-Drive Watches

gunniejames
Scout
New Citizen Men ECO-DRIVE Chronograph Watch AT0360-50E , 99usd? from HK?

did you really think?,,, be honest.
Message 12 of 38
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*BEWARE* Fake Citizen Eco-Drive Watches

but it's too good of a deal to pass up >.<

... people really need to be more doubtful when it comes to 'great deal'

and check this out, this seller's been outed before

http://forums.ebay.com/db1/topic/Watches-Clocks-And/Counterfeit-Citizen-Watches/510258594&start=0
Message 13 of 38
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*BEWARE* Fake Citizen Eco-Drive Watches

gunniejames
Scout
I don't know if I feel bad for some people anymore.
okay some bought a rolex and it was almost dead on.outted thousands?; I would feel bad.

there was the rado ceramic msrp 2k bought on ebay for a little over one hundred, mavado scarifo for about the same, gold omega watch for 125, and this.

people come in here and cry about how someone "got them", and want to play this "I was a victim" game?
and look for pity. what did one expect?

99usd? you can't buy a automatic watch from wal-mart for 99 dollars.

I was told by a reliable source that most of these are stock piled somewhere in the states, only the domain or acct's. are overseas, so they make out on shipping as well. and the U.S seller on the "dropship" program.

but that's another story.

nothing is going to happen to this seller, they will just go internet cafe hopping and build up a thousand feedbacks in a day ; be right back at it. they probably already have a few hundred ; who knows what the number is it could be some kids to the more eleborate where it thousands of acct's. built up already for the holidays.

but I don't believe for 1 sec. these so called "victims" are all "victims".

ah, this is getting old; even for me.
Message 14 of 38
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*BEWARE* Fake Citizen Eco-Drive Watches

You are getting yourself a little worked up there, take a step back for a minute.

Why are we all here on ebay? To find a good deal....

I am not a watch guy or anything, I just felt like it was time to get a new watch for myself.

Now, from my recent research into the world of watches I know that the watch I am currently shopping for has a recommended price point of $695.

NO ONE sells it for that.
The going rate is %20 less than that, or $550.
That is if I went into the local Jewelry store and walked out with it today.

Now, I can get this watch on ebay.... a genuine, authentic watch, for $385.

HOW?

I don't know. But I have been reassured (by the US seller) that their watches are genuine, and the first thing I do when I get it is have it authenticated by a jeweler.

As far as the standard retail price on an AT0360-50E is concerned I couldn't find it.
It is a discontinued watch, I found no record of it on Citizens website.

Of course I was skeptical, but like I said, I found a thread on the message board that claimed these watches were real, and offered an explanation for it.

Of course I believed it because, after all, I wanted to believe it.

So am I guilty? Yeah, of trying to find a good price. Same as you.
Message 15 of 38
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