Value of an "Artist's Proof" as compared to a numbered print?

[skyhart]

Just wondered if anyone might know what the value of an Artist's Proof is compared to a numbered print of the same image. At auction I bought a silkscreen print by James Hagen - it is entitled SHADOWS at centre bottom; is signed by the artist to right bottom and also has an "AP" on the bottom left (all in pencil) which to me means Artist's Proof. I have seen various similar James Hagen prints listed on ebay & the internet at very good prices. I am curious as to whether this print has the same sort of value as those numbered prints??? THANKS for any info.

[skyhart]

Just googled my question and found this - GOOD TO KNOW.....

"An artist's proof, an image made for the artist by the printer. APs are usually produced in smaller numbers than the general edition, are marked as APs, and may be signed and numbered as well. Because the number of APs is smaller and because the APs are "closer to the artist's hand," signed APs tend to be more valuable than the prints of a signed and numbered limited edition."

[skyhart]

AND THIS.....

What is an Artist’s Proof?

In the early days of printmaking, printer's plates would wear down over time. Because of this, the first prints off the printing press were the highest quality and were designated “artist’s proofs”. The artist’s proofs were considered to be the best prints within the edition and often the artist kept them.

Technology has changed quite a bit since the early days of printmaking. Today, all prints within a run of offset lithographic prints or Giclee prints will be identical in quality. However, the tradition of having a special edition within the edition has stuck around.

Today the value of owning an artist’s proof does not relate to quality, it relates to the importance of owning a rare portion of an edition. Most offset lithographic editions and Giclee editions include less than 20 percent artist’s proofs. Because the art world loves rarity and since there are fewer artist’s proofs than regular prints, they are preferred by many collectors.

Artist’s proofs are clearly notated on the reproduction. If there were 50 artist’s proofs, they will likely be numbered 1/50 A.P. to 50/50 A.P. Most often they will cost between 20% and 50% more than a signed and numbered print from the same edition.

[spiritofecstasy]

As a valuer and appraiser of fine art (and not an online dealer) I can advise without bias that Artist's Proofs (APs), Printer's Proofs, Trial Proofs, Hors d'Commerce and any other 'Proof' are no more valuable to the secondary market than a numbered work from an edition. One could argue that un-numbered APs are more common than individual numbered works (there being only one work with the said individual number but more APs without numbers) and therefore less valuable.

Advising that an AP or any other 'proof' is intrinsically (and by definition) more valuable than a numbered work is nothing more than a marketing ploy to the uninitiated. What matters more when it is time for you to sell your art is provenance (record of ownership) rarity of the artwork (the less works of art in an edition the better) and condition e.g. acid free framing (by a gloved professional framer if possible) under plexiglass preferably whilst framed in a vacuum with no dust or fingermarks deposited on the paper. Even the merest touch of a naked hand on the paper on which art was produced can due to the acid that exists on a hand erode over time the integrity of the paper and consequently the secondary value of the art work.

Please also be aware that there exists many 'Posthumous' works of art listed as being original that have been published (printed) after an artist has died - these are of little value to the secondary market. Be aware also that some works although with the same title could be a secondary run of a previous edition which are usually less valuable than the first run e.g. Man with a Hat (L'Homme au chapeau) by Pablo Picasso. The first edition of 4 (before steel facing) being more rare and infinitely more valuable than the later edition published in 1947 which had a common run of 500. These works at first glance can for the uninitiated appear to be listed at a bargain price - they are not.

Sometimes unscrupulous printers may use the original materials to print artworks that should have been destroyed after an edition was published e.g. copper plates (used to create etchings) or Bavarian stone (used to create lithographs). These works are usually considered as not with the permission of the artist and therefore are mostly of less value than the original edition. If you are not aware of the credentials of the person from whom you are buying art it is best to remember the phrase 'Caveat emptor' (buyer beware).

[pam12007]

I am bidding on AP numbered prints by David Schluss with certificate of authenticity does the price vary between buying a limited edition print or AP.  Which is better in buying?

[swanba]

I have a Stobart 'Sunrise Over Nanutcket in 1835' marked as:  AP/850.

Would this be the artist's orginal proof, or another way of noting an AP piece?

The original frame is exquisite.

Thanks in advance.

[ancienboutique]

Hello,

I have the original Plate (etching steel) from Canton Denim label Jeans, USA circa 1930-1950. I have the plate listed it as $350 

how about the original plate values?

thanks in advance.

Tomas

[sheerinviper]

When Wikipedia disagrees with you... you are wrong. Why would you assert an Artist Proof is worth less when everything that Wiki describes is reasonable, intelligent, and most likely correct? Could it be that you are a dealer that only deals in limitted editions? In any event... I give your post zero credibiltiy. The beauty of the Internet is that is is all knowing. The most powerful tool every conceived by man. Much more powerful than the ignorance of a single man.

[neurout]

LOL. Sorry, but I can't help but find your post humorously ironic, to say the least. You repeatedly reaffirm the limited worth of AP works of art and state emphatically " If you are not aware of the credentials of the person from whom you are buying art it is best to remember the phrase 'Caveat emptor' (buyer beware)." The same must hold true for the opinions or advice from "valuers and appraisers of fine art," for nowhere in your post do you state your actual credentials in any manner.

Thus, your word must unswervingly apply to your own rule.

My own humble perception as a buyer and seller on the Ebay common market is that works of art, fine or otherwise, are ultimately worth what what someone is willing to pay for it based upon their desire to own it. The variety of tiers representing prints, numbered prints and numbered artist's proofs simply offers a range of exlcusivity for those interested in the works by a particular artist. Even if limited numbers alone create the separations, then their individual value is established by all those who compete to own them.

It is doubtful that anyone participating at this level in general would even consider seeking the advice of a fine arts appraiser, for the satisfaction in these purchases extends far beyond mere investment value.

[lisfishe91]

Hi - saw your comment re artist proof and I’m about purchase one by lo Cole who I have emailed directly - he advised that the number obviously wouldn’t be on the print but it would be marked with ap and signed - is there anything else I could ask for to show it’s a true proof ? 

[branjo8]

LOL!!!!  and every news report i see and hear is absolute fact, the president never lies and all policeofficers are only there to help!!!!!! LOL

[marcelsecours]

At least their response addressed the original question.    What you’re willing to pay for a piece of art based on your desire to own it is a wonderful concept but doesn’t come close to answering the original question.    Did you have any information to offer that would be of help to the person that asked the question.   Because that was the question that drew me to this board and I found the other answer to be very helpful and yours to be a quite useless and mean spirited.  

[meerkat710]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but since your post was several years ago I am sure you have discovered the true value of  your James Hagen print.  I am the not so happy buyer of three of this 

alleged artist works.  This person either does not exist or has never been a listed artist anywhere. I was taken in by the huge numbers of these on the internet myself and snapped up three of them at a Goodwill.  There is literally no actual history of James Hagen as an artist anywhere.  This person has no biography, no wikepedia post or anything to prove he is real.   The cost of his 'works' go from $14 to four figures, I doubt if these works are worth more than any other office art.

       It is also interesting to look at each one of his prints. They seem to be some kind of logrhythm of mountains, a stream and trees repeated over and over in different colors.  If anyone can prove "James Hagen" exists I would love to hear where to find him. I think Ebay should stop allowing this fraud to continue.   The James Hagen prints, signed by the artist with an artist proof or numbered are fairly worthless.  

[meerkat710]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but since your post was several years ago I am sure you have discovered the true value of  your James Hagen print.  I am the not so happy buyer of three of this 

alleged artist works.  This person either does not exist or has never been a listed artist anywhere. I was taken in by the huge numbers of these on the internet myself and snapped up three of them at a Goodwill.  There is literally no actual history of James Hagen as an artist anywhere.  This person has no biography, no wikepedia post or anything to prove he is real.   The cost of his 'works' go from $14 to four figures, I doubt if these works are worth more than any other office art.

       It is also interesting to look at each one of his prints. They seem to be a series of mountains, a stream and trees repeated over and over in different colors and sizes.  If anyone can prove "James Hagen" exists I would love to hear where to find him. I think Ebay should stop allowing this fraud to continue.   The James Hagen prints, signed by the artist with an artist proof or numbered are fairly worthless.