Fiscal Cancel?

[jaywild]

 Is this item’s cancel fiscal?  Seems unlikely anyone paid 5 1893 shillings to mail something then the stamp wasn't heavily obliterated. 

What does the “C” stand for in the CDS?

[msgtdavid]

If you are asking about what appears like "CTAFFORD", then in that case what you call a "C" is actually an "S", the "S" is not fully transferred, sort of looks like an "C".

But if you are referring to the "C" in "OC" then it stands for October.

But if you are referring to the "C" that stands alone on top of "OC 5", then I have no idea.  I'am assuming this is what you meant, but sort of unclear to me at least!

David Thompson

MSGT/USAF/Retired

Remember D-Day!

[thines]

He's asking whether the cancel is a "fiscal" or revenue cancel - a cancel used when the stamp was used to pay a tax. High face value used British stamps are worth much less when they have a fiscal as opposed to a postal cancel. This appears to be a postal cancel to me.

[greenwave4u]

Hi Jaywild,

This is a normal postal cancel for Stafford and yes it is October 5th 1893. Nice cancel socked on the nose as well. Some small perf damage top right but probably worth about £80.

[jaywild]

Thanks Peter.  Actually they’re asking £110, too much even without those bumped perfs.  Too bad!

[msgtdavid]

In order to save time next time, just add an arrow like I did!

In reference to the last posting, then you do not own this item?

David Thompson

MSGT/USAF/Retired

See arrow

[annadryl]

If the listing mentions CDS they're probably just pointing out that the cancel is a Circular Date Cancel, a general form with the date, city etc. Also called Socked on the Nose. This one's a nice clear one, upright and centered.

It's nice the stamp wasn't mauled. If they regularly obliterate-canceled a 1d stamp (like many of mine) they would certainly kill a 60!

[billsey]

How many post office branches did Stafford have in 1893? The C could easily be a branch designation or a clerk designation, but I'd think branch the more likely of the two. Anyway, it likely differentiated the 'C' from other cancelers that had 'A', 'B', etc. 😉

[dbenson]

It was either used as a code cancel to differentiate the time it was used or in some offices they were issued to different desks. It is not a different Branch cancel,

David B.

[msgtdavid]

I did some fast research (research is fun), the population in Stafford in 1893 was about 22,000 souls.

I was stationed in North East England back in the 1980s.  Bought a car and drove and toured all over England.  Stafford was visited a few times, very similar appearance in some way with New Market.

David Thompson

MSGT/USAF/Retired

[jaywild]

annadryl…  CDS is a term used in the US that means Circular Date Stamp.  On a machine cancel it is the “dial” for date/time purposes, coupled with a “killer” that obliterates the stamp and might indicate the clerk or machine at the branch.

dbenson & billsey…  I just thought that the C might indicate fiscal use.  I don’t know what fiscal cancels look like! 

[greenwave4u]

Consulted the experts in the FB QV group and the post office uses the postal telegraph time codes. In this case C = 15:00. Copied the page in the book as a jpg to show here:-

If you want to join the QV group on Facebook the link is here:-
Facebook QV group

One of the best sources for help on this subject on the internet,

[msgtdavid]

Hi, good morning.

Research is so much fun, you must also enjoy researching.

DAVID THOMPSON

MSGT/USAF/Retired

[jaywild]

Peter…

Thanks for the info on telegraph time-stamping, furnished by the experts at FB QV group.  I assume this means the stamp has a telegraph cancel.  Does that qualify as “postal” use or “fiscal”?  I can see the argument for fiscal—it pays a fee or tax on the sending of telegram(s).  But perhaps custom amongst GB collectors assigns telegraph stamps to the postal category, since the sending of a message is involved.

What do you think?

[msgtdavid]

I understand your question I think?

English stamps used to be Postage and Revenue inscribed!

David Thompson

MSGT/USAF/Retired