having recently joined the CCI , which i am informed has some 400 members , it seems most interesting to me that a collectors group can amass 218 members in a few months .
why can a most established organisation almost seem under threat with new collectors ?
do new collectors feel the e bay group is sufficient ,and CCI membership ,not necessary ?
has the internet taken the CCI by suprise ,and they have underestimated just how many collectors are out there ?
could cost of membership be a factor ?
could the chosen locations of conferences put off certain collectors ( no uk meetings ?? ) and also is the cost of attending such meetings a worry for any collectors ?
could more links between our group and the CCI ,offer advantages to us both ,with possible increased membership,
for the CCI ,and thus offer improvements ,if membership was suddenly greatly increased ?
could existing members even consider leaving the CCI if our group continues to expand at such a rate ?
it would be very interesting to see a flood of inputs from group members , which offer views positive , or negative . it might off the CCI an opportunity to adress ,study ,and benefit from this discussion.
i have a number of ideas ,which might be worth considering ,but on this issue ,i am at present a lone voice , not a rich collector , and my views alone cannot possibly be enough .
i have enjoyed the issues so far ,and have no desire to leave the CCI , and sincerly hope that this discussion will benefit , chess collectors international.
chess collecting has changed forever , with the internet , e bay , and it seems to me at least that this discussion might conclude that change is necessary.
I agree that the internet has changed chess collecting forever and that the success of our group has surprised CCI.
But I hope there will be a close and long lasting cooperation between CCI and our group. I also encourage every group member to become a CCI member.
Hi every one.
CCI is full of boring old (rich) buffers who need a shot up the jacksy. Most have been collecting for years and they are too set in their ways. CCI is so last century GO internet collectors!!!
do you have any ideas of your own as to what the CCI could do ,to encourage your interest ?
clearly as a top notch restorer , such a view should be of concern to chess collectors international , as a member it sure is me.
are we talking of a complete overhaul of the organisation here, or just an image problem ,with a few limited changes? or even an organisation that does not want to change ,as the current membership are quite happy with they way it is run .
fellow group members ,please join in this discussion , every point of view must be voiced .
let us hope the CCI respond to any views ,and even let group members know their long term objectives.
CCI has good things, but to be honest, should provide more for its members. The Collector is a good magazine, but appears only 3 or 4 times a year. Would like to see it more often. CCI meetings are good but do have an elitist image and are very expensive and seem only be in Germany, Italy and USA.
There are one or more sites like www.chesscollectors.com and www.cci-italia.it. Although www.chesscollectors.com has had 18189 visits, it is not a meeting or discussion site for CCI members. A missed opportunity: this site at ebay proofs that it meets a need.
But all should come from the members itself. They should write for the magazine, organize meetings which do attract a broader public. Internet activities could be combined and he existing sites made more lively.
As long as that's not done the need isn't that high!?
Many of the comments about CCI are very worth considering. The group seems to have many ebay "dealers" or sellers as opposed to collectors,who are not members of CCI. Many of the group have membership in both the group and CCI. The CCI publications are volunteer publications. More articles would be printed, if more people would write them.Many of the articles provide more in depth material than we get from the ebay group. Also, CCI does tend to publish more information about live auctions around the world. Many members of CCI are young and not rich.The perception of old and rich is a perception and not reality. Meetings have been held in England before. None recently since the organization tries to meet ALL OVER the world and not in one country only. CCI and the community group can and do compliment each other for many of us who have membership in both.
Another bit of information about CCI. There are two publications that ALL members get. One is The Chess Collector, published in England at least three times a year and the other is CCI-USA,published in the USA at least twice a year. Additional publications and printed items such as a booklet on how to identify ivory, or chess in movies, etc, have also been published and distributed to all members throughout the world. Since the group provides instant communication to many, while CCI provides more in depth material, both compliment each other and provide value to anyone serious about learning more about chess collecting. Incidentally, what about those who collect chess on stamps? Or chess books? Or chess Ephemera? Chess in the movies? Chess on T shirts, blouses, scarfs and other items of closing. Everyone has their own interest and a broad view serves to further educate. A single minded view of chess collecting is a very limited way of seeing the beauty of it all.
Final comment for tonight. Charter members of CCI include Gareth WIlliams, Victor Keats and I. Lidner, whose books we all read on chess collecting. Other members include former world chess champ A. Karpov who has a great chess stamp collection, Lothar Schmid who was the arbiter at the Fisher Spassky match, Yuri Averbach, former head of Chess organization in Russia.Live meetings of CCI have featured simultaneous matches between members and Karpov, Schmid and Averbach. Can not duplicate that on the net. Great people with a wealth of knowledge that one can obtain from meeting them in person, at live CCI meetings. They all may be old, but they sure have a lot of knowledge that beginners could profit from.
i agree there are many good things the CCI offer ,and the more serious collectors should take note of this.
however there are a few interesting points worth noting.
1. our group is existing with english as the common language. so considering britain seems to offer so many antique sets on the bay ,and the history of chess there is second to none , the need for the uk as a more important conference centre seems essential.
2.the points refering to chess stamps , ( a british invention ) t shirts , etc , i agree that fun or specalist areas away from sets themselves are things we can collect, as i have such items.however in most cases such items are not going to of serious interest to top notch grand masters ,book writers like gareth ( who i like , a nice gentleman who is happy to talk to others ), but well made chess sets ,boards ,clocks , will be far more likely to offer advice ,opinions , on these items.
3. for me to go to the usa for the next congress ,would involve expense i simply cannot afford ,and being honest ,i like side benefits . could the meeting tie in with a chess auction , and are there a good selection of antique shops ,markets , to visit near by . london can offer all three ,plus its english speaking ,easy to get around ,and at an auction like bloomsburys ,info can be offered to collectors on where to visit to get these items. there are 4 well known sellers on the bay which are uk based , so collectors could meet all of them at such a uk meeting. rookx , jacdu , dermotr , latvian gambit. will any attend the usa meeting ? the proposed german /italian ones ? which other country offers 4 proven chess sellers ?
even frank camerata told me that for antique chess sets the london auctions were a must for his business.a tie in with the CCI here has to be worthwhile.
4 modern and vintage sets will have their collectors ,but i wonder if the experts at CCI meetings will have additional knowledge on these sets , and the current web sites on the net seem to suggest that they wont. i simply cannot see gareth williams being able to advise a new collector ,on collecting modern repro sets ,to any great depth. i doubt it would be of great interest to him. my guess is if i met kasparov , and offered to play a game of chess with him , on a quality jaques board ,with a quality chess antique clock ,and a nice 3.5 inch ivory set , he just might do it !!!! what will he make of a modern brand new upright ,is another matter. i simply would not have the nerve to even ask him . so a selection of modern sets do benefit a congress ,and there is no harm in seeing them , but to suggest that collectors of antique sets are single minded is ...A VERY SINGLE MINDED,view too.i for one collect all kinds of chess trivia .. like ceramic , plastic , chess lighters , as i smoke a pipe .. so my sets are not from a smoke free home either.
5 the issue of cost for attending these meetings needs adressing too. if a casual visitor was to attend such a meeting , but not stay in the hotel ,or take any lunch/dinner , is there an entry fee ? i have no idea what sort of out lay in cash terms what a visit ( even on the cheap ) might involve.
6 as a CCI member i offered my services to write an article on my e bay observations , and i am happy to say it was accepted. however i had to make the offer , joost is correct , we need to encourage members to offer their services to the organisation. i collect ,i do not deal in chess sets ,there is no angle here ... i just love chess playing ,chess history ,chess talk , and chess collecting.
meeting fellow collectors is of prime importance .
To: Chesspurr (and others). Chess Collectors International has met all over the world in its 23 years of existence, because in every country there are members who can not afford to attend meetings out of their country. Even in the USA, there are west coast members who can not attend east coast meetings (3,000 miles away). To give everyone a chance to attend we try to schedule meetings everywhere. In addition to International meetings every two years, members in Germany, Italy and the USA have scheduled meetings in their countries. We met in London in 1986, and when Gareth Williams lived in London, we frequently had a evening dinner meeting to co-incide with an auction in London. CCI is a not for profit membership organization. All activities are set up by volunteers. If you would care to set a dinner meeting the night before the next London chess auction, I think word could be circulated to both CCI members as well as through this Ebay group, and a good attendance could be expected. International meetings usually tie in with a live auction and national as well as International meetings usually feature a chess "fair" where chess sets and chess items can be bought, sold and traded. Since attendees at CCI meetings have all types of collecting interests, there is always someone present who can exchange their expertise with others on new and/and or plastic sets, as well as old and more expensive sets. Everyone started with only one set, at some period of time. Additionally, Not everyone stays at the convention hotels and some members of CCI come only for one day and pay a nominal fee for attending. We are always looking for people to write articles about chess for The Chess Collector, or for CCI-USA. However, since we are all volunteers, we can not keep asking everyone for articles. We need people to come forth and volunteer their articles to our volunteer editors. For example, I volunteered to produce a booklet on Anri wood sets, which we distributed to members of CCI. Another member did a three part article on staunton sets.Our members have produced articles on chess scenes in the movies and chess in comic books. Everything with chess, is fair game. Finally, I notice that in this group, as in CCI, most of the writing is done by the same few, while others sit back and enjoy. That is simply the way it is in any volunteer group or organization.
I joined CCI back in the 80s and found it gave me a great introduction to chess collecting and to the prominent collectors of that time ( who were always very helpful to me in sharing their time and knowledge).
I suppose like any organisation or association it takes alot of ongoing committment from memebrs to keep it vibrant and relevant to changing circumstances and Im sure the senior members of CCI who have been carrying the 'baton' for may years now would love to have seen newer members play more active roles in the association. But as Lichess rightly points out, the reality is that most of us are 'passive' members and the fact that we continue to pay our memebership fees suggests that we feel we are getting reasonable value for money spent.
However, I think Chesspur's initiative has raised many worthwhile issues about the operation of CCI and particularly the danger that it is perceived as a club for the rich collectors.
Hopefully the management board of CCI will address all the comments made in this forum and make whatever changes might be necssary so that CCI will continue to operate sucessfully into the future - alongside any other forums that spring up - after all I think it is to all our benefit that we as collectors have a variety of sources open to us in pursuit of our interest.
i sincely hope my article has not been percived as a disturbance to the CCI.
already i have found out a few things ,not least the date of the last uk meeting 1986 ??? that is some time ago, and perhaps ,we might not have to wait for a further such length of time .
perhaps a number of more casual meetings with less cost involved could be the answer . if this were possible then they could occur in far more countries.
i agree with lichess that the chess loving organisers of the CCI have to be commended ,respected ,and others could do more , the problem is how to do it. i also agree that these regular contributors work for love ,and not money ,and again they should be applauded for that too.
the lack of response to this discussion from fellow group collectors ,seems to suggest negative thinking on the CCI and this is of concern to me at least.
if this is so ,and nothing is done about it , fellow collectors please note this ... how can we expect the CCI to respond ... dermot is right here , as long as we sit back and do little then change is impossible. the CCI organisers if at fault , are not alone ... we collectors are the main guilty party here.
pease help ,join in this discussion , offer ideas ,support , and we can improve things .
there is a planned chess auction for may 2007 at bloomsbury . this could be an opportunity for collectors to meet fellow group members , and it might be possible to come up with an informal collectors meeting. if some euro ,and us collectors were thinking of coming to this auction ,as a first time auction experience ,well mabye we could try and suggest making such an event possible.
any suggestions ?
I would love to attend such a meeting. Meeting with other Chess Collectors is one of my main goals when I attend the Bloomsbury auctions.
An informal collectors meeting would be great, even when only meeting point and place are known in advance. But maybe some things can be done: lecture on some subject (e.g. St.George sets; Material; Restoration (-by Alan?))
Further I always liked to visit Portobello road, but I was never there on saturday. Maybe something there can be arranged the day before/after auction (before is better)?
I never wanted to belittle the CCI. Since I'm member of CCI I do have more contacts with Chess Collectors. These are of great value to me. Also I did appreciate the extra articles as lichess pointed. So I'm not unhappy with CCI, but always hoped to get more. At the other hand, CCI probably hopes to get more from members, including myself, as well.
This is a very interesting discussion and one that needs to continue. As the editor of the CCI magazine I am always interested in the views of CCI members (& non-members).
I think there is a "perception" problem on both sides!
1)The CCI does contain some very rich members, but they are in the minority. I am certainly not a rich person with a wife & family and a mortgage, but I managed to attend the Berlin congress, by staying at a different hotel and restricted my attendance to specific days. I have to say that I thoughly enjoyed the congress and discussed all aspects of chess collecting with many people.
2) The CCI has not changed very much in it's structure since its inception and I think it does need to update itself. eg: The CCI website is virtually static! I am keen to get some discussions going in the magazine. I have already made some changes to the magazine and more are on their way!
3) With regards to a UK meeting. I fully support this, but the main stumbling block is that someone has to volunteer to organise it! A few CCI members did have an informal dinner / meeting the night beofre the last Bloomsbury auction. For the next auction in May, maybe someone could suggest a suitable location and we can publicise it both here and in the CCI magazine and anyone who wants to turn up can do so.
Anyway thats my opinion!
Jim, You have put your finger on the heart of the CCI problem. Someone has to organize it. We need people to step up and take the lead. Being critical won't get the job done. All International meetings have been organized bny the same two people for the past 20 years. The publications have been edited by only a handful of people for the past 23 years.The website ws put up by one member only. Even this great discussion group with over 230 members still has only a handful that regularly comment. Where is everybody else?
Bill, No one is persona non grata because of criticism. It is a free world. What country are you in? I will contact the appropriate Treasurer to send you dues notice. Next issue of CCI-USA will be mailed in late February and The Chess Collector should be mailed in March to dues paying members of CCI.