Two return situation questions

[rgroftexas]

I've not dealt with many returns so I'm sorry if these are basic questions. I've tried to read through the help pages, but they seem to contradict each other, or not cover all scenarios.

My return policy is set to:  30 days, Buyer pays shipping. 

1. Sold a  game as "Acceptable" that had some scratches, but it worked fine in my PS2 and scanned fine on my computer with no errors (I kept a copy of the log). Buyer said it didn't play in his PS2, okay well I can buy that, some of the old systems are more sensitive, whatever. I tell him to start a return through ebay, he returned it, I gave him a full refund, no problem. But then I looked today and ebay charged me for the shipping. I guess that regardless of your return policy, if the buyer claims the item doesn't work, then you still pay the shipping? But I thought I read that if I'm the one paying the shipping, then I can choose the shipping method. I never saw this option. Fortunately it did ship at the cheapest rate, but who decides that?  Any chance I can get that $3.63 back since I can prove the game was in working condition when I mailed it? 

2. Second item was a keyboard that was in brand new, unopened condition. Buyer requested no invoice in the box (why?). Buyer had the item for almost the full 30 days before requesting a return because the "down key doesn't work well, it annoys him".  Buyer never contacted me before initiating return, and didn't respond to my message afterwards.   Buyer made his feedback private at some point between buying the keyboard and when he requested the return, but his feedback is perfect.   So, ebay automatically accepted the return, and a label was printed on the 21st, but the item has not shipped yet.  Is ebay going to charge me the shipping on this return too, which was $14 when I shipped it out? And since the keyboard will no longer be in the condition I sold it in, what are my options? I read that I can deduct up to 50% of the value on the return. But that's it? When I hit the "issue refund" button in the return centers, is that when the option will appear to discount the amount? I don't want to hit that button after I get the item back and then have no confirmation or anything and he gets back the full value.  Also, right now the return center says I have to issue the refund by the 26th, but the item still hasn't actually shipped according to the tracking.

What steps can I take to make sure I don't get screwed on this return? Is contacting customer service over the phone the only way to contest this 2nd return?  And what steps can I take to protect myself in the future? I thought offering a return policy was better than not, because ebay makes you take returns anyways, so at least I could dictate the terms if I offered my own, but I guess that still isn't the case.

[bonjourami]

So many questions, LOL. The seller always pays return shipping on a snad complaint, Ebay usually provides the label for the shipping service used to send the item. You cant get a refund on any shipping label, because you have no way to 'prove' the item was working when you sent it.Its your word against the buyer..period..and the buyer always wins.Its not important if the buyer changed his feedback to private..and all buyers have only positive feedback.Yes, Ebay will charge you for this return label too.you can only claim the fifty percent refund if you have free returns. And since that buyer claimed the key was sticking,and he filed the snad on that, you couldnt have claimed any of the refund anyway.

[rgroftexas]

Okay I made two mistakes in what I was reading. 1. That the policy I was reading doesn't start until October and 2. You have to be Top-Rated, which I thought I was but I made mistakes at the beginning of the year when I forgot to unlist a couple items I sold elsewhere. 

Anyways, it still appears to be a violation of ebays terms to take a NEW product, open it, use it, and then return it. I just will have to actually involve ebay rather than being able to do anything automatically, and I'm def not getting my shipping refunded.

[bonjourami]

That is not a violation of Ebay's rules, how can a buyer tell if there are any problems unless he opens it and tries it?

[rgroftexas]

Ebay's definition of return abuse: 

• Returning an item other than the original item received
• Using or damaging an item and then returning it
• Returning an item with the reason that it was not as described when it was described accurately

Item WAS brand new, unopened. now it isn't.   What am I missing here?

[bonjourami]

I dont think Ebay will agree with you that the buyer shouldnt have opened the item and tried it..

[bonjourami]

I think you are trying to manipulate Ebays 'Using or damaging an item and then returning it' to fit your scenario. Using and damaging an item, then trying to return it, would be buying a prom dress on Ebay, wearing it to the prom, spilling red wine all over it, then trying to return it..just an example, but you get the drift.It doesnt mean a buyer cannot open a sealed item and try it to make sure it works.Sealed items arrive defective all the time..Ive had a few myself.

[rgroftexas]

Well, as I suspected there is nothing wrong with the keyboard beyond the fact that it is now lightyl dusted  in cigarette ash and the box is partially crushed.  I'm typing this message from it and the down key works perfectly fine.  So, now what?

[lacemaker3]

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@rgroftexas wrote:

Well, as I suspected there is nothing wrong with the keyboard beyond the fact that it is now lightyl dusted  in cigarette ash and the box is partially crushed.  I'm typing this message from it and the down key works perfectly fine.  So, now what?

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Be glad that you got the keyboard back in saleable condition!

eBay's policy is that if the buyer chooses a return reason that is "not as described", then the item was not as described and the seller has to pay for the return shipping. They have stated that they will not over-rule or change the reason that the buyer selected.

You can report the buyer if you believe they deliberately chose a NAD reason to get out of paying for the return shipping, but that won't change the results for this case. eBay will keep track of these reports, and if they find a buyer has a track record of doing this, then they may take action against the buyer.

[rgroftexas]

Yes, I'm fortunate in that regard at least. After testing it, I like the feel of the keys and will probably keep it for my own use. But, is "not as described" the same as "doesn't work or defective"? because that was the actual return reason given.and I havent been charged for the shipping yet.  If I can prove that it does actually work, with a short video, does that matter?

[bonjourami]

Neither Ebay nor PP will look at a video for 'proof' of anything, they can be doctored.

[no_zero369]

Hey Amigo. I'm reading this thread and getting the impression you are being too granular and a bit overly legalistic.  Sorry if that is not what is intended, just how it appears to this chair.

One thing I had to learn when I started selling was how to handle returns.  Looks like you are getting some of the "education" with these two items and returns.  One one gets their head around the SNAD policy and a seller's responsibilities, then one can move away from the emotional side of things and move toward business decisions and solutions!

Here is what I took away regarding returns:

1.  Returns are a part of retail selling, Period.  get over it.
2. When a return happens I am going to lose money.
3. How I handle returns determines how much money I lose, my choice
4.  There are ways to try to avoid returns, arguing or debating with a buyer is not effective.
5.   Setting aside a small amount from each transaction as a Cookie Jar fund, provides monies for returns.
6.   The seller Mantra, to be chanted each day:  You can refuse returns, but you can not refuse refunds!

Once I got these down selling became a whole lot easier and less stressful!  hope you can move up the learning curve quickly, integrate these concepts and have a less stressful selling experience!

Good luck.  Hope some of this helps?

[monster-deals]

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@rgroftexas wrote:

What steps can I take to make sure I don't get screwed on this return? 

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There are no such steps.

You can only appeal and report your buyer if something goes sideways.

[myescape]

You can not contest it once you accepted the return request

And you can not prove the key did not stick for buyer or condition when returned.Its a case of he said,she said and to retain buyers ebay falls on their side the vast majority of the time

[mlsteel74]

Hi,

I feel for you, you described and or listed these items to the best of your observation of product and technical specs & capabilities that model product you sold.

I will put it to you shortly, ebay will side with buyer 99% of thd time. Not matter if your was described 100% with all good and used/worn detail you listed on your description.

It just takes buyer to open a return & select the negative reason/s from the drop down menu selection.

Mind you, there's the other 2 or 3 options for return, which buyers select about 5% of the time. Like, [I Changed my mind] [I don't after all] [I bought wrong item]. If buyers select these options, is like them hanging themselves. They will need to pay for shipping cost if you accept the return, or you can. completly decline return because they're all ready admitting there mistake.  

So what do they do, they select the negative option selection in there favor. If they selected the negative option and wrote to you on return. Not as described, it has marks, software is not working.....things of that nature....

There's a 99% probability you will need to refund buyer all monies for product and shipping cost. Plus you will pay for return shipping cost to have product shipped back to you.

READ MY GRIPE AND QUESTION POST

Hi,

I've been selling for over a year now. Most of my items are 95% NOS and New, with balance of 5% being used or refurbished.

Of the 400 invoices year to date sold, I've experienced 5 or 6 returns on NEW items. Which 2 of the 6 were honest buyer purchase mistake. They paid for shipping cost to send product back to me. These two buyers never said nothing wrong or bad-mouthed the product/s, other than, I bought the wrong item can I return it? Yes of course were my answers.

On the other hand, the other 3-4 returns, buyers bad-mouthed product. Wrote things like; it's broken, it does'nt work, you mis-represented, it smells, it does'nt look good. Mind you all 4 returns were new products at the time. All my products get inspected before shipping out, due to being in the aerospace industry. Everything gets checked and tripled checked.

In my opinion, it seems Ebay sides with "buyers" when activating returns 99% of the time. (The only time you're in favor is if the buyer does'nt reply within time line.)

Just on the fact  buyers returns are based on one of the drop-down selections ebay puts as a category to buyer so it qualifies them to get "ALL THERE MONEY BACK, INCLUDING SHIPPING COST". Although selection is untrue, as oppose to selecting [I bought wrong item] [I don't want it after all], buyers don't select these because, they will definetly need to pay the shipping cost to get the product back to seller or maybe not even qualify for the return period, if they do select those categories.

Sometimes buyers, when activating a return; are looking for a discount after the fact, sometimes they bank on seller saying on replying "Just Keep the Product" and I'll return your Money, things of that nature. I'll offer you certain percent off or amount.

At the end sellers are stuck with headache of Returning the Money-Back for 100% non-defective product and stuck with shipping cost of no fault of there own. Not only that, I understand Ebay will not refund your FEES, instead you can use to offset listing fees.

The other thing Ebay does, is sends you a notice that they will be making a decision by next day or 48 hours. The decisions renedered on me came within an hour of the notice and sided with buyers. Soley based on reason why they want to make the return, but they make decisions without even actually looking at product.

As oppose to attesting and saying. "Based on reason for return and inspection of product" yes its a valid return or the opposite. Not a Valid Return based on inspection of product (no-defects) vs reason for return.

I just came to conclusion, not matter if you sell a brand new sneakers fresh from manufacture or dept-store with 100% quality. Then you sell on ebay and buyer, for whatever reason in there mind decide to Return product and select this product is defective, smells like rubber and leather.

Ebay will make you Refund that buyer no matter what, even though you tell buyer to keep those new $200 sneakers or if they get returned back to you. Bottom line, you will be out of that sale, plus shipping cost, 99% of the time.

I've relisted the returns and new buyers have no qualms whatsoever. If product was BAD as mentioned by previous buyers, would'nt you think next buyer would say the same things as previous buyers on returns??? Something to think about. (Fly by night sellers, that's another story & complete different subject)

Honesty..... goes a long way. I would not give a guy from the street $5 when I've been asked do you have money for food?  In other hand, I have given people from the street $5, when they ask, hi sir I'm hung-over, can spare some money, I like to get me some beer? That's as far as I will go on this.

I'm sure I'm not the first or last, your comments & thoughts please on buyer returns or buyer remorse.