China Selling Scam

[poppop545]

• I have been reading this catagory for 3 days. Believe me, my eyeballs are about to fall out of my head. Having said that, I have a few thoughts as well as a situation I have experienced.

I get it about buying from China. The situation I experienced was NOT from buying from China but very well be from a problem in China.

As far as sellers taking it in the shorts from buyers, until I read this forum, I had NO IDEA the amount of ways this could be accomplished. I do know however that it nearly happened to me many years ago with my whole 9 sales. I told myself, "Never Again will I sell on EBay!' That was 2013.  So my compassion for sellers goes without saying. However, if this guy wouldn't have screwed up, I'd been out $1017.00 and that would have been it.

Unfortunately, in the age of the Internet, there will always be more people trying to screw people than those tasked to prevent it. It's just the nature of the beast in todays world. It just amazed me as to the roadmap this forum gives to do either. But I digress.

This is what happened to me. What makes this so different from the thousands of examples listed here is that it happened from 4 different sellers, 3 different countries, all with the same item purchased, and with further investigation, has happened at least 16 different times to literally hundreds of buyers. It is the old,"ship it to the wrong address", scam. If anyone wants to know what it was, go to the "SOLD" listings for Devilbiss gti pro lite and look for ANY item where buyers paid less than $80 for this item. Its scary. Sellers with perfect feedback, people with feedback less than body temperature, and those with feedback of less than 60% all did the same thing here. They take a feedback of 100%, sell several of these items, and screw the buyers right into the post. Either  sellers set the whole thing up, retaliated for being  screwed over by buyers, or maybe Chinese suppliers are being told that if  the tarrifs go into effect, they will starve. What ever the case, all of these sellers are third party buying from 2 Chinese manufacturers.  I buy a spray gun from a seller in Bulgaria, Israel, Russian Federation....what ever. Seller third parties to China with buyers address etc. Chinese wharehouse makes out tracking ticket and sends the item. Item goes to the wrong address, seller takes the hit, buyer never gets the spray gun, sellers 100% nosedives and EBay kicks them off. Only one who gets paid is China. What ever the reason, it is pecular that concerning this item, so many high rated sellers from all over the world, did exactly the same thing @ exactly the same time.  Item doesn't show up to the buyer, buyer goes to alert EBay, and finds that EBay has gotten the same complaint for this seller for the whole time the buyer has been waiting for the delivery date to file the complaint. Of course, that was without knowing a complaint would even be necessary.  This could amount to dozens of negatives in the time it takes for the latest buyer to file the LAST complaint. This happened from one seller that had 181 Negatives in a row within the last 30 days.  Look at the sale timeline, the price, and the feedback issues. (27 Jul ) When was the last time you saw 180 negs in 30 days on 112 sales rating and are still on EBay? 3 of the last 5 of these items I purchased were bought from sellers who were kicked off EBay between the time I purchased, (July) and the time I could file a complaint for INR. All sellers had great feedback ratings. After back checking, one of my sellers had 13 Negs for the exact same thing within the last 20 days. I could go on, but I think if you research what I'm saying here, you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. Without knowing what was coming, it all looked legit. It all looked like what the normal good EBayer would look like......until the bomb drops! This one particular item can only be shipped from China, and regardless who you buy it from, it comes from the same place. 

In RETROSPECT, what looked like a normal transaction, actually had several clues. But again, "You don't know what you don"t know". What I have found out, both through this site, my own experience, and taking several pieces and putting them together, is how to POSSIBLY identify a scammer seller.

1. If you find something that looks like a deal, doesn't necessarily make it a deal. RTFL (read the f*****g  listing). Scammers are VERY precise as to how they write the listing. If something looks a little over the top for what is being sold, be careful.

2. Compare the search page with the actual seller listing, with sold like items from the same seller of the same item.In one instance,  SAME SELLER sold 6 like items. 23-25 Aug. Search page said sold out of Seattle Wa and was $39.99 w/ $6.99 shipping. Auction page showed same thing but local pick up only. Address to be given after item paid for. (No S**T Sherlock.) Why was this put into the ad when it is self explanitory? Sold items showed "sold from China". That is one hell of a local pickup! RED FLAG! As of today, one buyer bought 4, two different sellers bought 1 each. For the two individuals, the sale page will not come up. Guess why!!! For the buyer of the 4, probably doesn't know it yet. 

3. Check sellers other sold items. A pricy NEW tool selling from a seller who only sells either junk or used clothes is a RED FLAG!

4. Check feedback page for sellers date and where from. Chinese item sold from an american seller from Bulgaria is a RED FLAG!

5. Check followers if any. If all followers are from the 4 corners of the earth, RED FLAG!

6. Check FOLLOWERS feedback. If many have less than 10 or none within the last 6 months, RED FLAG!

7. Check what the followers have purchased. Self explanitory. Nobody is going to be a follower of a seller of trinkets. 10 of them is a drop dead cinch.

8. Shipping time is very important. If the average time is 10-20 days, cool buddy. If the shipping time, in conjuction with the radically lower than average price is 30-60 days, LOOK OUT. If you don't expect an item for 45 days, and the seller issues a tracking number soon after the sale that kind of languishes without movement, quite possibly the item will be sent to a false address and will start the 30 day MBG clock. If you don't know it was delivered early to the false address or  EBay tracking stops for an extended time, RED FLAG! If you can not open a dispute because the last expected delivery date isn't for another month,  but the item was delivered somewhere else, by the time you are ALLOWED to file the complaint, OOPS OH! Call EBay Immediately, ask the recording to speak to a REPRESENTATIVE, and tell your story. Cut the rep off if you have to, (be polite) but make sure your complaint is on the tape they are making of the conversation. Also record the date and time of the call. 

9. Always remember, the veracity of the sale is the Sellers responsibility. Testing the veracity of the purchase is the Buyers responsibility. None of these suggestions imply that sellers are crooks. Not following these suggestions doesn't mean the buyer is stupid. Both may fall under the spectre of a thief. If one is going to do it, sooner or later he/she WILL figure out how to do it. No rule is going to stop a thief if an individual wishes to be a thief. No matter what rule EBay comes up with, it must apply equally across a spectrum of millions. Right or wrong, fair or unfair, know the rules AS THEY ARE TODAY. The only thing that doesn't change over time is being dead! Approach the sale or purchase with that in mind and give yourself a chance. These forums are a great learning tools. Unfortunately, what people learn and for what reason or purpose is based on the proclivities of the person. 

10.If a listing SAYS "LAST ONE" be careful. If the seller sold 12 yesterday and sells 14 tomorrow, all while stating "LAST ONE", you ARE dealing with a liar. This seller is looking for a hungry fish. 

Just a suggestion.

[poppop545]

As a followup to this post. Amazingly EBay has deleted over a full page of these sold item listings for Devilbiss gti pro lite spray guns. However, I have screen shots of every page taken 3 days ago. The scam guns were there for all to see. I wonder why they are gone all of a sudden? Many of the scam guns are still on the sold page but can not be accessed. Page shows something went wrong, try again later. I have 2 pages of these sold guns dating back to mid July. The new less than 1 page listings still go back to mid Jul so at least half have been deleted. Why would they delete all of these scam sales? Like I said, I have the screen shots of every page. (Helps stop the boiler plate solutions EBay uses to stop the conversation).

Also all the recommended guns at less than $80 that will not show up on the normal search results, are still on EBay. Had to click on a regular priced ad and then these cheaper priced guns show up. I have screen shots of these too. If I knew how to post screen shots, I'd post them here. But @ 68 years old, I'm afraid my tech smarts is lacking a bit.

[poppop545]

I wrote a third entry last night with all the proof of what I am saying here, the evidence that this scam is escalating and is in progress right now, and asking for help from the community to get EBay to take this seriously before others get hurt by this scam. I even proposed a possible solution. EBay blocked the entire post. Ebay even blocked me from responding to the rockstar who posted a reply that I can not access. 

This community ran just fine before I got here, and will run just fine after I'm gone. My appologies for not being talented enough to state a case that will get past the censors who would protect the platform before the customers. There are a whole new batch of these scams in progress as we speak. Apparently, the rights of  scammers superceed the rights of those about to be scammed. For those who are about to be burned, all I can say is, "I tried"

[papsr]

I do the report item when i see all they have sold is clothing and big give away is 6 or less feed back given to others....tired of getting scammed and waitting months to get my money back....you will notice all items are sold in china maybe 4 to us buyers...

[f0x369]

I got slammed too bought 10 items from china over Christmas and they are all being delivered to wrong addresses, the price was so low I got greedy and ebay is aware and complicit in the whole scam.

[daw365]

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@poppop545 wrote:

Chinese wharehouse makes out tracking ticket and sends the item. Item goes to the wrong address, seller takes the hit, buyer never gets the spray gun, sellers 100% nosedives and EBay kicks them off.

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How would it be-woof the China warehouse to waste an actual item with tracking to the wrong address? Look if your nonsense flag has turned red.

[poppop545]

You are absolutely correct. Your intellect is amazing. However, you haven't got a clue as to the purpose of this post. Of course, what I said was supposedly what was taking place time and time again. What is really going on, and I had hoped that anyone who might have a solution to this fiasco would have the sense to understand, is that time and time again, the item is never sent, just the package that is supposed to have the item in it. The sellers keep on doing this until they get caught and either drop from EBay, or get kicked off. Regardless, if you read many of the negative feedbacks, many people have no idea how to get a refund from a seller. Don't you think that some of these sellers haven't figured this out by now? 190 negs on one seller @$60 a pop American is a lot of money in China. I reported over 30 of these sellers on just this one item. 

[ga-8370]

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@poppop545 wrote:

190 negs on one seller @$60 a pop American is a lot of money in China.

I reported over 30 of these sellers on just this one item. 

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Why should eBay give you any credence to your clearwater for our revival? To them, you're just a cause with no ties to dye any one of those 30 sellers.

[poppop545]

Gee. No wonder this scam is so successful. Fortunately, I got through this scam without losing anything more than some time. I wonder how many who got caught up in this scam (over 400 when I stopped counting) lost their money? I'm sure that a 9 year old, living in moms basement wouldn't see a need to try to help others. No worry though; those who usually need help are the ones who never realize that they do. But for those who might have or may in the future might wish to not fall into the scam portrayed here, hopefully the info here may help them. I understand that many sellers try to downplay things said that cast aspersions toward other sellers, but I don't think the previous response had the where-with-all of that. If someone else can explain the meaning of it, please feel free. Thank you

[nh7235]

@poppop545 wrote:

Gee. No wonder this scam is so successful.

I wonder how many who got caught up in this scam (over 400 when I stopped counting) lost their money? I'm sure that a 9 year old, living in moms basement wouldn't see a need to try to help others.

I understand that many sellers try to downplay things said that cast aspersions

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The usual construct @poppop545 for this aspersion is that the aspungent is too old to still be living in mom's house, and should have moved out a long time ago. You certainly wouldn't set 9 years since birth as that limit. Good shooting, but unfortunately, you missed.

[poppop545]

Please don't use words you don't understand. You'll start sounding like a lib.

Some try to alert people, through personal experience, that a problem may be out there of interest to the community. Some attempt to denigrate others because they think it makes them look better than they really are. If a person wishes to respond from the safety of ananimity from mommies basement, that's fine. Whether they are a 9 year old, or are much older and act like a 9 year old, it's all about trying to appear as something they are not. 

This forum is supposed to be about issues surrounding the use of EBay. But as is the situation with most everything involving social media today, it degenerates into a "LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT ME", platform by little people trying to be big people. 

If you are not 9 years old, my apologies to you. If you are 29 years old, my apologies to your parents. They certainly deserve all of our  simpathies.

I have stated my findings in such a way that anyone who might want the knowledge I have gained in this situation can see for themselves possible ways to avoid having the same difficulties in their own transactions. As far as it goes, no other inputs are necessary or even solicited. Troll inputs from 9 year olds are what they are. However, regardless of what you say SPORT, all you can do is try to take something away, for whatever reason you feel the need, from attempting to help others. It would appear that your inputs are solely for the purpose of making  yourself feel better. Good luck.

[alcoforever]

Is there a Reader's Digest version of this post?

[poppop545]

Not really. What do I do if my item arrives broken? That one can be answered with the Readers Digest version. However, I have seen this answered literally HUNDREDS of times on this forum. Sometimes one post can generate HUNDREDS of responses on the exact same post. This is what happens on a community forum. Its the nature of the beast. The issue I am presenting appears to be a systemic internal problem concerning the basic operating parameters of the EBay platform itself. If that was the Readers DIGEST version, the trolls would have a field day. I have generally found that the amount of responses to a question is usually inversly proportional to the difficulty of the question asked.

I had this problem. I notified EBay and got it solved. I ordered another, same problem, same solution. I did it again and again. Same item, different sellers, different countries, different prices, same problem. Then came the runup of mass negatives across the board of sellers selling this same item. I kept notifying EBay and nothing changed. The same sellers were still on EBay, doing the same thing, only now doing it WHOLESALE. Literally hundreds of people getting ripped off the same way. Didn't matter the sellers rating, % positives, or # items sold previously. Regardless of what I told EBay,  all they were concerned with was MY refund. They had NO desire to hear about any of the rest of the problem or what I had found. The problem just kept escalating. So I put it on this forum to see if anyone else had ever hear of such a thing. 

I put up the first entry. I got a response, I answered it and EBay deleted the entire second post I wrote as well as the member post that prompted the response. I wrote a followup on 8/28, same thing happened. I wrote a response on 8/29. Then, the 8/28 response appeared, and then the 8/29 response reappeared. Have no idea how that happened, but kind of curious how a 28 Aug post shows up sandwiched between two identical 29 Aug posts, but I digress.

I tried to identify a scam in progress and it appeared that EBay was doing what they could to minimumize the issue. Thus the details. I read some of the nonsense people write on this forum and it passes under the umbrella of COMMUNITY FORUM. But EBay  can delete anything they don't like and completely change the context of what is said and you can do nothing about it. They allow bad info and many times out and out lies a pass, but by god don't you use the most common of metaphors that MIGHT offend a thief. They can send a nastygram that you said something that MIGHT offend someone, but they never seem to send the infogram asking if you can back up the underlying allegation. It alway seems that EBay will censor things that reflect badly on EBay, or cut the specifics that prove the point.  But, as far as following up on hundreds of buyers getting hammered by thieves, oh we can't have that. But don't do anything to stop it. Where are the Cliff Notes for resolution of this?

I can not speak to buyers who may be having this problem with other items. I can only speak to my experiences with trying to buy one particular item.  No matter where it is sold from, it can only be procured from China. Is it a Chinese problem? Is it a problem of one entity having hundreds of EBay accounts and after the 10 item sold threshold is surpassed, the rip off goes on until caught and the account just gets switched? Is it a retaliation against import tariffs? I have no clue. However, in almost 30 years of EBaying, I have never had an item shipped to a different address. I have never had an item tracked but never shipped. I have never been lied to repeatedly until the NLT delivery date and as of the next day, no contact. Just lucky I guess. So why now with this particular item? The problem was trickle, trickle, trickle, BOOM.  I have tried to be as specific as I can because this could be a much bigger problem than I know. EBay does know, but won't say. So how big is the problem?

While I am being censored for SHAMING by identifying a seller with 209 negatives on 167 sales, (figure that one out), or a seller with a MINUS % positive feedback rating AFTER 200 people bought one of these, a seller that can have 27 sales listed for the item and not one feedback for that item, or a sponsored seller doing the exact same thing, where is EBay letting buyers know that there might just be a problem? And for those who say that if you don't receive it, the MBG will take care of it, how about the second inneration of the scam where the empty box or envelope is sent to the wrong address half way across the country? When that started becomming more visable, fake packages were sent to addresses 3 blocks over. What would you do if an envelope gets sent to you addressed to Xavius Yappus Zilch at your address? It probably would go into the same circular file as all the rest of the junk mail we get these days. The way this unfolded, and with the linear progression of the scam, is it possible that all of these were perpetrated by the same individual(s)? If anyone out there has ever heard of something like this happening to so many people at the same time concerning the same item, in the same way, with the same progression, I'd sure like to hear about it. These are all things that EBay tells you that they protect buyers from and yet when you identify it to them for 3 months, it continues.  If the supposed "Good guys" are doing exactly the same things the, "Bad guys" are doing, what benefit does the "Good guy" moniker do for the buyer? It all appears to be eyewash.  I have the screenshots; they could care less. 

You want my Readers Digest version of what's being said here, here it is. EBay has lost control of how many ways this platform can be compromised in the age of the current internet. They know that no matter what algorithyms they write, someone will defeat them before the end of the day. Before the next morning, millions of others will know how also. If I identify a crook, that gets censored before it is even posted. But if a thousand people on a forum instruct thousands of others on how to rip off either buyers or sellers, that goes unchallenged. If this happened to me on one particular item and nothing was done to correct it when all it would take is EBay asking me for some examples by auction number and doing something about it and "Thank you very much", which they didn't do, then how many other items is this being done on? The old saw of, "This is a binding contract", is the earliest example of what is actually an urban legend. People were told that it was true back in the wild west days of EBay back in the early 90's, but is no more true today than any other statements of EBay protecting you from any of this. Statements from EBay are like a Life Jacket under the seat. You won't know if you are actually protected until you have to use it. 

Bottom line, EBay will not protect you from bad sellers unless it is in  EBays best interest to protect you from bad sellers!  If you are a good seller up against a knowledgable bad buyer, you are on your own and you will probably lose. EBay cut loose sellers years ago. In the early days the scales tipped back and forth until EBay lost control of the platform, and then it tilted away from the sellers and toward the buyers for good because the sellers pay the bills. So now, sellers who are inclined to rip off buyers have learned that as long as the 10 sale theshold is exceeded, take an item with 50, 60, 100 sellers selling the same item, undercut the average substantially, flood sell a bunch with a long delivery time, (the longer the better), EBay pays after they get their share, (which they get either way), run it until the horse drops dead, drop the account when they get caught, disappear into the woodwork, and  start over on a different account. If you don't think this can be done, how about when my brother died. The bank sent his credit card renewal to me with the new card.  Want to know what the security code was? "What is your mothers maiden name"? (Just for some of those who have responded to this post, my moms maiden name is the same as my biological brothers moms maiden name).  State, activate, good to go. What does this have to do with anything you ask? If the bank is going to send me a credit card, and I use it until somebody asks a question and I split before they get serious, I'm fat, happy, and gone. If EBay makes their money off the top, knows that something is fishy but doesn't do anything until I have skipped, EBay won't pay for it any more than the credit card company will. The loss is baked into the cake. The sellers pay for it with their fees.

Bad guys will exploit loopholes when ever they can. This platform is compromised in ways the average EBayer could not imagine. Sellers have been stuck for about as much as they can. So now, if some of the buyers get burned through something EBay can say they know nothing about, so beit.

This is what I tried to explain and people can take from it what they wish.

By the way, for those who think that this is the ramblings of a tin foil hat conspiricy nut, take a look at some of the negative feedback some people write. See how many people ask the same "How do I get my money back" question and realize that many people don't have a clue how to navigate the EBay process. RIGHT OR WRONG, when you see how many people write that they were ripped off, do not buy, and that many don't even realize that there were proceedures that could have protected them, you'll understand the impetus for this kind of scam. Realizing that a 20% rip off success rate is pretty lucrative in China for items in this price range, if one person keeps from being ripped off from this NOVEL, I'm good with it. But, if by the time you get to this line and you haven't found any information that may help you, then so be it. By the way, if incoherent statements are your thing, cool buddy. Just keeps bringing this issue to the top of the Hits list. Thank you.

[nkmipgolf]

I've reported scammers selling gaming chairs for $13.89 with free shipping. These normally sell for $99. 00  Listing is still up after 5 days and 429 chairs have sold. Anybody who pays for these chairs deserve to loose their money.  scammers live off greed and MBG.  

[picknparley]

Reading the numerous posts does lend a bit of credibility to this.  This scam has been on done on other items. DeWalt pancake air compressors for one.

Have you presented your information to online fraud and crime investigators?  IC3 would be a good place to go with it.  ebay won't take legal action because that wouldn't be appropriate. Maybe there's trade laws that prevent them from doing something. 

This was made easier for the scammers to do when the e-packet and reduced shipping for China was enacted.  There's a chance all those policies are going to be re-addressed in the near future.  This is something we'll need to remind our president of when he addresses this at a point in the future.  

There are other specialist agencies to take on these scammers.  They may appreciate all your homework.