Item arrived damaged; seller's response to return request is to accuse me of fraud

[heydansmith]

(TL;DR at the end)

On May 11, I purchased a fully-loaded mid-2015 15-inch MacBook Pro that was supposedly less than 30 days old (according to the serial number when checked against Apple's warranty tool) via a Buy It Now -- for $2600 (read: in-line with market value) from a seller with 100% ratings and a 2014-vintage account.

The listing shipping fee was $50, for SmartPost; when I pointed out that SmartPost didn't offer insurance, the seller (via eBay message) demanded $20 for upgraded shipping with signature confirmation. After paying that additional fee, the seller disclosed that the laptop's bottom panel had been replaced and the serial number would not match the hardware ID (no mention of this in the auction); this raised the hair on my neck, I told him it was fine, so long as the motherboard reported the serial listed in the auction, because my non-retina 2012 MacBook Pro had died and I needed a new machine, stat (I don't like the fact that the 2016 touch-bar machines have soldered-in SSDs, no SD card slot and only USB-C ports).

When the box arrived (USPS first class parcel; no signature required) it looked like it had been through a war, so I decided to film myself opening it, just in case. The laptop was wrapped in a single layer of half-deflated bubble wrap, with 2 strips of 1/8th-inch foam in each end of the 2-day Priority Mail box, which was much larger than the laptop, with a cheap 3rd-party AC adapter thrown in, loose. Unwrapping the laptop on camera, I noted a large dent along the Thunderbolt ports on the left hand side and on the side of the display and showed them to the camera. Physical damage to the case voids Apple's warranty. I was able to boot the computer into hardware diagnostic mode and confirm that the serial number of the motherboard matches the serial in the listing, but differs from the serial on the bottom case (which is heavily scratched and mildly dented). I photographed the serial number on-screen, the Apple system profiler report, the damage and all sides of the machine, along with the 60w power adapter (the 15-inch requires an 85w) and embedded those in the ensuing return request.

I immediately opened a return case, for an item arriving damaged, uploading the photos and describing the damage. The seller's response was to say that it was undamaged when it was packaged; when I pointed out that eBay's Money Back Guarantee mandates a return for a full refund for items damaged in transit, he demanded a photo showing clearly both the on-screen serial number and the damage in the same photo. I complied, using my iPhone, uploading directly to Dropbox (and linked the direct image and enclosing folder URLs) and his response was to claim that I had composited the image in Photoshop. I filmed, using the iPhone, the damage and the machine going from off to booting into diagnostic mode, in a single take and uploaded to Dropbox (and embedded the direct link); he responded that it was all CGI and I was trying to defraud him. My response was that, if he'd spent a fraction of the $70 in shipping fees on packaging the machine, I'd have the working laptop that I need and he'd get to keep my money, and that I would no longer respond, pending escalating for eBay's review, reminding him that, if he wants to file an insurance claim with the USPS, he needs to do so soon. (All of the above was conducted via eBay's messaging system, in the dispute).

The seller then sent me an email, offering: "Are you willing to do a return for the original price of the MacBook, minus ebay/paypal/shipping fees and a 15% restock fee?"

I replied, via the dispute message system, that such an offer was in violation of eBay policy and disadvantageous, versus the Money Back Guarantee return process and included a screenshot of his email, with full headers and restated that all of the unmolested images and videos, with intact EXIF/metadata, were available via the Dropbox folder I'd linked.

At 12:01am PDT, this morning, the first moment possible (I live on the east coast and wasn't staying up until 3am on a workday), the seller escalated the claim, saying things like he supplied proof of proper packaging (he hasn't) and that I Photoshopped and CGI'd the damage and that the sort of damage illustrated in the photos isn't possible.

I called eBay this morning (and documented the call); the associate I spoke with seemed to be confused about who opened the return and that has me worried -- is eBay more likely to find in this seller's favor because he escalated the dispute that I opened, or will they actually look at the messages and the video documentation, that I linked in those messages?

--The totality of the packaging. (image uploaded to dispute)Significant 'fold' above the Thunderbolt and power ports. (image uploaded to dispute)Damage to the side of the laptop -- the whole side is pushed in, with the apex of the dent at the rearmost Thunderbolt. (image uploaded to dispute)The image, made on the night the computer arrived, which he claims is Photoshopped. (image uploaded to Dropbox, linked in dispute)In better light, the following morning. (image uploaded to Dropbox, linked in dispute)The bottom case serial, which doesn't match the auction and belongs to a much older model (2013 MacBook Pro). (image uploaded to dispute)

TL; DR: A very expensive laptop arrived damaged. I filmed myself opening the box and have thoroughly documented the damage. The seller is refusing the return, claiming the photos and videos are fabricated. I opened the return on the day it arrived, but he escalated at 12:01am PDT; does that make it less likely that eBay will decide in my favor?

[heydansmith]

PS -- I used to be very active (as a buyer and occasional seller) on eBay, until a similarly nasty damaged/SNAD experience left a bad taste in my mouth, back in 2014 (how I learned the hard way to film when opening expensive items that may arrive damaged or may not be what they were purported to be). I suppose this is sort of the nail in the coffin for my willingness to buy/sell through eBay.

[myangelandmyprincess]

Well the adding $20 to shipping is a non issue since you asked for upgraded shipping you pay for it.  Should have asked before purchasing really.  Although that is a lot for shipping.  

Id like to say you'll win.  Buyers usually win easily but you have a seller who thinks they're right and likely won't let up on cs until they find one who agrees with them.  I say this as I've had it happen recently.  Seller even admitted he didn't send everything in the auction because the bidding didn't go high enough and managed to get cs to close the case in his favor.  So my recommendation is to be the squeaky wheel.   You should win  

[heydansmith]

I'm not asking for the $20 'upgraded shipping fee' back. It is gone, as far as I'm concerned (I said as much to him, in the dispute), even though it violates eBay's policies to separately charge for insurance. (To be fair, even eBay says not to ship valuable items via SmartPost as it doesn't provide insurance -- which I was admittedly unfamiliar with prior to the purchase.)

I'm much more concerned about the $2,649.99 that I paid via the Buy it Now listing. 

[myangelandmyprincess]

Well you should still get that back as well you'd be owed a full refund. I was just saying that charging you extra was ok since you wanted an upgraded service   It was an awful lot of shipping cost though.   And really insurance has little benefit for you as the buyer   

I would just keep on cs to try and be sure the seller doesn't find a numpty one who will close it in his favor. 

[heydansmith]

Oh, okay. 

Other than the phone call that I made this morning (and got a case number), what can/should I do with eBay customer service while they deliberate on the escallation? (Basically, I got the standard brush-off that a decision was pending and I'd have an answer in 48-72 hours.)

[southern*sweet*tea]

OP I have no advice for you since I've never had to deal with something like this. I just wanted to comment.

No wonder buyers leave here and never come back! I don't send parts laptops packaged that poorly!  He's fighting because he knows there no way in Hades USPS will pay insurance for that shoddy packaging.   I honestly don't see how this can be denied. Sellers almost always lose out on SNAD cases - heck, they get scammed left and right with bogus SNADS.  Also, he did not require a signature. That alone would void his seller protection, would it not? Or only in an INR case?

[gonepostal-id]

eBay usually rules for the buyer and I would expect them to do so this time unless the seller happens to get an unusually savvy CSR.

Frankly, you've followed all the steps of the more knowledgeable eBayer that plans from the beginning to pull a switch of some sort.  I'm sure it's coincidental, but it should look bad to the CSR, but probably won't.

1.  You demanded an upgrade to shipping for insurance.  Normally a buyer would not care if the item was insured or not as it covers the seller.  In my experience, the only time a buyer wants insurance is when he plans to claim his old, broken item was the one that was shipped, not have to feel guilty about the theft as he thinks the seller can get reimbursed from the USPS, and keep the new item the seller sent.  I've seen it happen so many times that I've learned to cancel sales of any transaction that the buyer wants more insurance on his item as helping a buyer steal from the USPS is not my thing.

2.  The switch of the bottom with the serial number.  Nearly every time I get ripped off by a buyer that wanted my new externals, but to keep their internals, I receive the item back with a different serial number on the outside than the inside.  I find it odd that the seller "emailed" you instead of eBay messaged you after the fact that the outside serial does not match the inside.  If the seller wanted it documented that you agreed to the different bottom, he would have most definitely wanted it in eBay messaging.  If you did not agree, he would have wanted it in messaging as well; so that he could get his fees back when he canceled the sale as a "buyer wishes to cancel".  As a buyer, I would not have agreed to accept such an item that I paid over $2600 to have.

3.  All of this photo and video as you opened the box.  It appears that you are developing a case from the beginning.  eBay doesn't accept such things as proof as they know video can easily be edited, especially mac users as that is the mac's forte.  I doubt the CSR will take any of it into account unless he wonders why you expected to be ripped off from the beginning where you felt you needed to video everything.

4.  Your highly detailed reasoning for every decision and step along the way.  You've obviously put much thought into this from the beginning.

There are plenty more red flags in your message, but I doubt that an eBay CSR will rule in the seller's favor.  They generally don't look at the messages deeply enough to actually think about what is happening.   They simply rule in favor of the buyer.  You should get your money back and the seller will end up without his laptop or his money.  Depending upon how angry he is, he may file charges with your local police department and file for mail fraud as I always do in such situations.  If he is vigilant, he may eventually get his money back and more.  It all depends upon how much work he is willing to put into it.  For $2600+, I suspect he will be motivated. 

I successfully went after one just a few weeks ago for $100.  Buyer originally won the case, but I stuck with it, researched, filed all the proper paperwork, hounded the authorities until they investigated.  Buyer is now in deep kimchi as he used his place of employment to change a destination scan, ruling was reversed, and buyer magically found the item when the authorities came a-knocking.  So, to make a long story short, if you are in the right and the seller wins, go after him with a vengeance.  If you are in the wrong and the seller loses, the seller will most likely come after you.

[heydansmith]

1. Here's what I sent him about SmartPost -- I didn't want the headache of it walking off and I figured mentioning that he was completely exposed, should something happen would entice him to upgrade:
   is it possible to upgrade the shipping to something other than SmartPost? SmartPost does not offer insurance or signature confirmation and limits liability to $100 -- using it to send a $2600 laptop is basically asking for it to get lost/damaged in transit or stolen.
2. He used eBay messaging to send me the note about the bottom panel, after the purchase was made; the single photo showed a scuff, but no serious damage: 
   Before shipping out the Macbook Pro, I wanted to make you aware that that the battery cycle count is now 8 instead of 7. I also wanted to let you know that the Macbook Pro has a mismatched bottom plate with a few minor scratches (please see attached photos). This has no effect on the performance or quality of the computer. All specifications are as listed on the eBay listing. 
3. I've learned the hard way (on a "new" $4,000 large format photo printer that was dumped into a box with minimal padding and came out looking like it'd been through a war -- the only other SNAD I've ever had) that, if the box looks damaged, document it being opened, in case there's damage.
4. Thanks, I'm glad that my lack of spelling mistakes and complete thoughts means I'm guilty of fraud. (Or maybe I'm just obsessively/retentively detail orientied and I've been on eBay since 2003, so I've seen all sorts of shady behavior.)

[heydansmith]

@gonepostal-id wrote:

You should get your money back and the seller will end up without his laptop or his money. 

Oh, he's getting the laptop back, along with the minimal packing materials… all of which, ironically, will be packed much more securely than how he sent it to me. 

I'd overlook the shady bottom plate swap (though I wonder what the deal is and don't have a pentalobe driver to open case) and janky 3rd party AC adapter, were those the only issues (and said as much in the return request message). The physical damage voids Apple's warranty -- 11 months remaining of the original 1year warranty was the reason I chose his listing over other machines with the same specs.

I'm a documentary photographer and not having a working laptop is killing me (and not having the almost $2,700 that I paid this seller makes it hard to just go buy one from a reputable retailer).

[heydansmith]

If you're curious, here's the unboxing video  -- (I'm embarassed how short I was when my wife came in to see if it was broken -- I was so frustrated upon seeing the damage).

I sent eBay the original .MOV file uploaded directly from my iPhone, for the sake of preserved metadata. 

[heydansmith]

I took your advice and called eBay, again, after reading that, since the auction was more than $750 and the seller didn't use Signature Confirmation, that the Money Back Guarantee wasn't valid.  (I was admittedly, panicking over the thought of being out $2650 and an undamaged laptop.)

When I mentioned the Buy It Now price, the CSR with whom I was speaking said that I needed to be transferred to 'high value customer service.' The CSR to whom I was transferred asked me to wait on hold while she spent 10 minutes reading through all the messages back and forth since I purchased the laptop and asked if I minded if the return case was put on hold for 5 days, while they direct the seller to issue me a return label (eBay apparently no longer issues labels for high value items).  I was told I'll receive a refund either after 5 days, or once the return shipment is delivered to the seller, whicever comes first.

I've packed the laptop securely, included the original packing materials (in case he somehow still is able to file an insurance claim) and sealed the box with tamper evident tape. (This is always how I've packed high-value items when I used to sell on eBay, to ensure safe, intact transit.) I sent the seller the parcel dimensions and weight, along with documentation of the packing process and when I'd need labels for various shippers, to get them sent off, today; he, as I suspected would happen, has gone silent.

My packing materials (left); his (right).Two layers of quilted cushion on all sides.This is the entirety of the packing materials used when the seller shipped me a $2,600 laptop.Awaiting the return label. Sealed with tamper-evident gummed tape, with writing across seams.

[myangelandmyprincess]

Ewww this does not have me feeling better.  That's exactly what happened to me last time. It was decided in my favor but they put the case on hold for five days to give the seller time to provide a label.  Told me that I'd the seller didn't do that that I'd get a refund without returning.   Two days after that the seller managed to call and get the case closed in his favor.   They also told me eBay couldn't provide a return label and it was. 2,000 + item as well 

[atikovi]

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@heydansmith wrote:

When the box arrived (USPS first class parcel; no signature required) it looked like it had been through a war

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You could have gotten it for free.

[heydansmith]

Blergh. Ok. I'll keep on top of it. Thankfully, the CSR provided direct contact information in a follow-up note. This is simply gut-wrenching.