Buyer Demanding Parts Not In Listing

[equid0x]

I am having an issue with a buyer that I have not run into before and I am wondering if anyone else had a similar experience before.

Buyer purchased a sprinkler timer that was sold as-is, no warranty, no returns. Timer had broken zone as described in the listing. Listing is for the panel only and makes no mention of including any other parts or accessories. 

Buyer begins emailing me stating that the listing is deceptive because he expected to receive the item with a power adapter. I explain that the listing was not sold with an adapter, but that these are readily available, or that alternatively, he can wire the panel to the 24VAC taps on his doorbell

transformer, if he has one. 

Buyer continues to go back and forth with me all morning claiming the listing is deceptive, that he can't use the panel as is, that he never would have bought it if he knew it didn't come with an ac adapter, etc etc. I explain that he purchased an as-is, no returns listing, that he can readily source the necessary part from a variety of retailers at minimal cost, that I will not accept a return or offer a refund. I call into CS and ask them to review his emails and make a note on my account should things escalate. CS agrees to do this. 

Fast forward to 1:30am the following day, he opens an item not received case with eBay. I find this in the morning, call into CS, spoke with a rep who reviewed the case and closed it in my favor, as tracking info shows delivered. 

At around noon the same day, the buyer now opens a return, claiming that the item is missing parts or pieces. I call into CS, who tells me they can't step in to the return until 72 hours have passed, but review the case and agree with me again, saying they will make more notes on the account.  At this point, I email the buyer back via the return and restate what was already said to him in eBay messaging and that I will decline return or refund. In his return he is again demanding that I send him an AC adapter or refund his money. 

Has anyone else ever dealt with a situation like this? This is the first time I have had a buyer demand that I send them things that were not in the original listing, and then open multiple cases trying to get a refund. 

[itz_stacey]

You listed this under "USED"- Rain Bird SST-600i 6 Zone Sprinkler Control Timer 

ebays definition of "USED" - 

Used

An item that has been used previously.  The item may have some signs of cosmetic wear, but is fully operational and functions as intended. This item may be a floor model or store return that has been used. See the seller's listing for full details and description of any imperfections.

This was your description - 

Rain Bird SST-600i. Supports up to 6 zones and an optional rain sensor. Large, clear display and individual buttons for easy programming. Connects to a standard 24 VAC power source.

This item has been tested with a voltmeter and confirmed working. The spring clip for zone 5 is broken, so it is not possible to insert a wire into the contacts for this zone. The units is otherwise in good condition. This item is being sold as-is with no warranty and no return.

You didn't state that the unit didn't have the AC adaptor...but you should have. The item cannot work without the transformer so you would have needed to list it under for parts only or not working in order to be able to win a SNAD claim against the buyer.

This is ebays definition of "For parts or not working" -  

For parts or not working

An item that does not function as intended and is not fully operational. This includes items that are defective in ways that render them difficult to use, items that require service or repair, or items missing essential components. See the seller's listing for full details.

Lastly - when you look at Rain Birds Model No. SST-600i you'll see the following (and buyers would expect to receive the following) -

• Includes timer, transformer with 6-ft cord plus installation guide

You will lose this SNAD claim,regardless of what ebay is telling you (they just tell you what you want to hear in order to get you off the phone so they can answer the next call.......others will tell you this same thing. We've been around ebay too long, lol).

If you choose to stand your ground on this one you will end up with a defect because the buyer had to ask ebay to step in. Not good. Just accept the return and shoot the guy a return label. Take it as a lesson learned (and block the buyer, just in case he returns because he's mad at you).

[itz_stacey]

I should have mentioned that your other option would be to offer him a partial refund in an amount sufficient for him to buy a transformer. 

Whatever you decide to do, DO NOT ignore that case against you.

[equid0x]

The item does function. Has been tested, and even the zone 5 works, simply that the spring clip is broken for the wire for zone 5. 

This text was not included in my listing:

"Includes timer, transformer with 6-ft cord plus installation guide"

Not sure where you pulled that from?

Also, I stated as follows "Connects to a standard 24 VAC power source." I did not say that the power source was included, nor was there a power source pictured. 

So, by your take on it, I also could not classify the item as used if I failed to include the installation guide? This simply doesn't jive with reality. 

If I go to a used car lot to buy a car, can the seller not sell the car as used because the previous own removed the stereo system? How about if the AC doesn't work? Is the car now "For parts or not working"? Maybe the used car lot hasn't included the orginal owners manual, is it now "For parts or not working"?

For parts or not working means just that. Item is for parts only, and is assumed not to be working. The panel in question is a tested item, that has been shown to be working, with a defect noted in the description.

The panel was not listed as being sold with an AC adapter, why would you assume there is one?

[equid0x]

I don't offer any partial refunds. That is nothing but an open door to scam central. I would have offered return for refund, but the buyer purchased an as-is, no warranty, no returns listing.

[itz_stacey]

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@equid0xwrote:

The item does function. Has been tested, and even the zone 5 works, simply that the spring clip is broken for the wire for zone 5. 

But the key is that it CANNOT work without a power supply. The power supply IS INCLUDED when you look up a Rain Bird SST-600i. If Rain Bird didn't include the power supply in their model number then you'd be fine........but they DO. Understand? 

This text was not included in my listing:

"Includes timer, transformer with 6-ft cord plus installation guide"

I got that directly from Rain Bird when I looked up the Model number. Every model has a parts list and the one you sold INCLUDES a power supply (transformer).

Not sure where you pulled that from?

Also, I stated as follows "Connects to a standard 24 VAC power source." I did not say that the power source was included, nor was there a power source pictured. 

It doesn't matter. Once again refer back to Rain Birds model number SST-600i (which is how you listed it). That model number INCLUDES a power supply. Because it cannot function without the transformer, and you weren't supplying it, you would have needed to list it under for parts only or not working. * See ebay description for that above.

So, by your take on it, I also could not classify the item as used if I failed to include the installation guide? This simply doesn't jive with reality. 

You may have gotten away with listing it as used if it didn't include the installation guide, provided you MENTIONED that fact in the title/description BUT if the buyer claimed SNAD then it would really boil down to to your luck as far as which ebay rep you got on the phone and if they felt like being cool to you at the moment. ebay is VERY VERY buyer motivated and it super rare that a seller will prevail in a SNAD case even if the buyer is dumb as a brick. Ask around if you are having trouble believing me. 

If I go to a used car lot to buy a car, can the seller not sell the car as used because the previous own removed the stereo system? How about if the AC doesn't work? Is the car now "For parts or not working"? Maybe the used car lot hasn't included the orginal owners manual, is it now "For parts or not working"?

This is ebays sandbox and ebays rules, not the car dealers. Not much else I can say other than that, lol. I'm not saying your wrong, other than you really should have mentioned that the power supply was not included (that was a fail for sure, IMO). All I'm trying to communicate to you if how EBAY is going to rule on this. A defect is not good for you and you are on your way to getting one.

For parts or not working means just that. Item is for parts only, and is assumed not to be working. The panel in question is a tested item, that has been shown to be working, with a defect noted in the description.

But it doesn't have the INCLUDED A STANDARD EQUIPMENT power supply. Again, look at ebays definition for parts only or not working. Note the missing critical comonents/parts thingy

The panel was not listed as being sold with an AC adapter, why would you assume there is one? 

Simple. Because when I look up the model number that you sold the specs tell me that it comes with a power supply. In fact, you never even mentioned that it wouldn't in your add so I have to wonder how you expected your buyer to know that?

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[itz_stacey]

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@equid0xwrote:
I don't offer any partial refunds. That is nothing but an open door to scam central. I would have offered return for refund, but the buyer purchased an as-is, no warranty, no returns listing.

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I get the no partials thing and normally I'd totally agree. However, because you failed to mention that a critical part (that is included when you look at the specs for part no: SST-600i) was NOT INCLUDED, a partial refund is just a way to help save you the cost of a return label for shipping.

By the way, your no returns is fine. But keep in mind that it does not mean NO REFUNDS. You're welcome to let the buyer keep the item to save you the cost of return shipping but you are still expected REFUND. Two totally different dogs. 

And lastly, there is no such thing as "AS-IS" on ebay unless you list an item under for parts only or not working. 

[equid0x]

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@itz_staceywrote:

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But the key is that it CANNOT work without a power supply. The power supply IS INCLUDED when you look up a Rain Bird SST-600i. If Rain Bird didn't include the power supply in their model number then you'd be fine........but they DO. Understand? 

The buyer is not purchasing a brand new item, so I really don't see how the parts list for a brand new item even applies to this case. Actually, the panel can be run from a 9V battery, but you would still need the transformer for activating the sprinkler solenoids. Sprinkler system transformers are a fairly standard part, and depending on your use case, may even require replacing the stock transformer with one of a larger amperage if your zone has a sufficient number of valves to be opened. I have no way of knowing what the customer's use case is.

I got that directly from Rain Bird when I looked up the Model number. Every model has a parts list and the one you sold INCLUDES a power supply (transformer).

Again, not sure how a parts list from a new item applies to a used item? I've never purchased a used item expecting it to have all of the original parts and accessories, but its a bonus if it does. 

Not sure where you pulled that from?

It doesn't matter. Once again refer back to Rain Birds model number SST-600i (which is how you listed it). That model number INCLUDES a power supply. Because it cannot function without the transformer, and you weren't supplying it, you would have needed to list it under for parts only or not working. * See ebay description for that above.

Again, panel can run from 9V battery. 24VAC (or 26.5 if you use the rainbird xfrmer) is used for activating the solenoids at the sprinkler valves. I am not selling sprinkler valves or AC transformers, I am selling a control panel. 

You may have gotten away with listing it as used if it didn't include the installation guide, provided you MENTIONED that fact in the title/description BUT if the buyer claimed SNAD then it would really boil down to to your luck as far as which ebay rep you got on the phone and if they felt like being cool to you at the moment. ebay is VERY VERY buyer motivated and it super rare that a seller will prevail in a SNAD case even if the buyer is dumb as a brick. Ask around if you are having trouble believing me. 

I have a hard time believe someone will win an SNAD on the basis of a missing manual for a used item. I agree that eBay is buyer-centric, but I am really only responsible for providing what is in the listing. I can't possibly state a list of missing accessory items for every listed item and in many cases, may not even know what those accessories are. On the logic of what you're stating, I could never list any vintage item as used because of course, they will almost certainly be missing every single accessory and piece of documentation that came with them. 

This is ebays sandbox and ebays rules, not the car dealers. Not much else I can say other than that, lol. I'm not saying your wrong, other than you really should have mentioned that the power supply was not included (that was a fail for sure, IMO). All I'm trying to communicate to you if how EBAY is going to rule on this. A defect is not good for you and you are on your way to getting one.

It no skin off my back to add "AC adapter not included" in the future, but I'm not really getting on-board with the argument that the buyer can assume that things are included with the sale that are not in the listing. Listings are a legally binding contract, and sellers are only on hook for providing in the sale what is in the listing. Lets say the panel sold as part of a kit - am I now on the hook for water lines, sprinkler heads, and valves as well because they would have been part of the original kit? I really don't see how I can be held accountable for delivering anything other than what was pictured and stated in the auction. 

But it doesn't have the INCLUDED A STANDARD EQUIPMENT power supply. Again, look at ebays definition for parts only or not working. Note the missing critical comonents/parts thingy

I think you are misinterpreting the definition of critical components/parts. I am pretty sure, but it would be great of someone from eBay actually chimed in on this, that language refers to someting such as an LCD television that is missing the LCD screen, or selling a car that is missing the engine, and in all cases where it was represented that there is a complete, operable unit. The power supply isn't an integral component, its an external component that attaches to the unit being sold. The timer panel itself is complete, and can also be run from a battery. I've made no representation that the power supply is included. 

Simple. Because when I look up the model number that you sold the specs tell me that it comes with a power supply. In fact, you never even mentioned that it wouldn't in your add so I have to wonder how you expected your buyer to know that?

I just can't wrap my head around the thinking that the buyer would be receiving anything that was not pictured or stated in the listing. Why would I mention the absense of an external part that I am not even selling as part of the listing? Why would a buyer assume that there is an AC adapter when there is none in the listing, none in the photos, and none in the descripition? Again, you keep referring to a parts list for a new unit, but this is not a new unit. 

Had I been selling a new unit, I would totally agree that there would be an assumption that it would include all of the accessories sold with a new unit, and also probably the box and manual, too. However, this is NOT a new unit.  I personally have never pruchased anything used and expected that everything on the factory parts list was included. If I wanted to know if they happened to have those parts, I would have asked before making a purchase. 

In this case, I strongly believe the buyer knew exactly what they were getting and is attempting to coerce me into providing a no-return refund. 

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[tofu107]

if a used car does not have A/C or stero,it is still a car and it runs.

But does your item without an adapter work?

I am no expert but when I read your description,I am getting the impression that it should work except zone 5.

You should list under parts and repair.aka salvage.

INAD trumps your no return,you will be paying return shipping,once he used it,it will be added to your seller account.

he can go to Paypal or cc issuerto file dispute or chargeback,with chargeback,there is no dialogue bac and forth as Paypal owns the merhcant account,a chargeback hits Paypal.

You pay $20 chargeback fee and he does not have to return the item,if you want it back,you pay return shipping and buyer can ignore you

[itz_stacey]

Don't shoot the messanger, I'm actually just trying to help.  

Suggestion - copy and paste your post on the Selling board. See what other sellers have to say.  👍

[tofu107]

we are not Ebay or Paypal or his cc issuer,time is better spent dealing with your buyer.

[equid0x]

It does work. He needs to buy an adapter and plug it in or put a battery in the panel.

[tofu107]

how do you know it works?

does it work without the adapter?

if not,then it does not work,or does not function.

go deal with the buyer before he goes to his cc issuer.

Unless Ebay eats the loss when you lose since it has sided with you .

[itz_stacey]

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@equid0xwrote:
It does work. He needs to buy an adapter and plug it in or put a battery in the panel.

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Fact - the model number you sold includes a power supply.

You listed it under "USED" but did not mention that the PS was missing. Because the PS is indeed critical to the operation,  you needed to list it under for parts or not working. For the last time, I refer back to whats definition of "USED" vs "For parts or not working."

Again, this is ebays sandbox...not Amazon's, Craigslist, or Home Depot's. 

[equid0x]

I plugged it into the power supply for my own sprinkler system, manually activated each zone and checked for voltage on the appropriate terminals when those zones were activated. As stated, panel can be run from a 9V battery as well.