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After 19 Years of Selling on eBay I Can No Longer Accept Returns

Thanks to eBay's new streamlined return policy making fraud as easy as clicking a button, I'm done with returns because buyers changed their mind or decided they didn't need the item they purchased.  

 

I've been selling used auto parts for Land Rovers for years on eBay, starting way back in the spring of 1999.  I've been a top rated seller since the program was started.  My feedback hasn't ever been below 99.6 (typically it's between 99.8 and 100%) with almost 20,000 transactions under my belt.  But, sadly, I have been plagued lately with buyers who have fraudulently returned items.   To put it bluntly, they've taken the parts I shipped them, installed those working parts, opened up a return request (ranging from "changed my mind" to "defective") and sent back their broken parts.  Sometimes, they don't even bother to safely package the parts!

 

One example that is particularly egregious was an item that had been painted with an identifying mark before it was shipped in an effort to insure that, should there be a return, I would be able to confirm that the part was, in fact mine.  The buyer claimed the part was defective and sent it back.  The part did not have the paint marking that had been put on it before I shipped it.  Essentially, the buyer installed my part and returned their broken part for a full refund included shipping both ways.

 

Another was where the buyer purchased a part, the kind of part that, if it's broken, your vehicle is not running.  They got the part and within a few days opened a request for a return because they had "changed their mind."  I find it curious, if your truck isn't running and you order a part to fix it, why, after receiving the part would you suddenly "change your mind."  Well, I test all the electrical parts I ship out right before I put them in the box.  This particular part was a solenoid so it was really easy to test with 12 volts.  

 

On Monday I got back a box that had a part banging around in it like a child's rattle.  It was the part the buyer had changed their mind over.  No packing, no protection, even the box was closed using silver duct tape!  Are you at all surprised that the part didn't have my usual enamel marking on it.  Would you be surprised to learn the part failed the simple 12 volt test.  Would it be reasonable to suspect that the buyer took my working part, installed it on his vehicle, got it running and used it to bring his broken part in the box with no packing to the post office to return for a full refund?

 

The third return involved another electrical part that is essential for a vehicle to run.  The buyer bought it and before he even received it requested a return claiming they "no longer needed it."  The part was a genuine Bosch part with Bosch markings all over it.  What did I get back in the return?  It was a cheap knock off from China with no markings on it at all.  I'd never even seen one so poorly made before.  Do you think the buyer might have thought he was saving a ton of money by purchasing a cheap Chinese part (probably for less than the cost of shipping my genuine Bosch part) only to find that those parts have a high failure rate.  So, to solve his problem he bought the genuine part from me, installed it, got his vehicle running and drove it to the post office where he mailed off the Chinese knock off for a full refund.

 

In just three transactions I've lost my Top Rated Seller Discount for two months.  Does eBay care? Of course they don't.  They would rather believe a buyer who's been on the site for six months with a dozen feedbacks (all positive because a seller can't even hint at malfeasace when leaving feedback) than a seller for 19 years with almost 20,000 positive feedback ratings.

 

The treatment sellers receive on this site gets more and more insulting every day.  So from here on out, no more easy returns for this seller.  I'm done being the welcome mat for every perpetrator of fraud eBay seems to court on their "platform."

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After 19 Years of Selling on eBay I Can No Longer Accept Returns

So, if you no longer take returns, do you realize that you still have to refund the money to these people without them sending back the item?  You can list as "no returns", but eBay's Money Back Guarantee still means that you will have to deal with returns.  Your options under the MBG are (1) refund with return, and (2) refund and the buyer keeps the item ... there isn't a third option of "as is, all sales final"

 

Thieves know how to manipulate the faulty Money Back Guarantee to steal from you.

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After 19 Years of Selling on eBay I Can No Longer Accept Returns

Hi I agree 100%  I have been selling since 2002.  I accept refunds but I do not accept paying for it.  Thats shop at home service.  Ebay let my buyers keep the product and also paid them as well even though the item sold described the issue with pictures and the buyers sent nothing to proove item not as described,....then you have china at 99 cents free shipping.  WHO CAN COMPETE WITH COMUMUNISM VS DEMOCRACY PRICING. EBAY DEMANDS DELIVERY CONFIRMATION   THAT STARTS IN THE USA AT $2.66 COMmUnISTS PAY NOTHING!!!!!!!  Ebay is for the buyer  they do not care about USA sellers and the sellers loses from threir, ebay unfair business practices

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After 19 Years of Selling on eBay I Can No Longer Accept Returns

ebay's silly "that's the cost of doing business" (i.e., it's ALL on you) argument has outlived it's usefulness.
Some sorry innovations are coming to fruition in the 2nd qtr...I suspect some long stockholder faces about the 3rd week in July.
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After 19 Years of Selling on eBay I Can No Longer Accept Returns

I am fully aware of what types of returns I will still be required to accept.  I spoke, at length today, with an eBay rep regarding my new responsibilities.  My biggest issue with fraudulent returns stems from "buyer's remorse" issues.  I'm fully aware that if the buyer had simply clicked the box saying "not as described" I would have been stuck with shipping both ways.  But, remember, just because they're thieves doesn't mean their smart.  More often than not, it's quite the opposite.  By eliminating "Buyer's Remorse" options I'll be reducing my overall number of returns dramatically.  Lower that number will result in lowering the number of fraudulent returns.

 

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After 19 Years of Selling on eBay I Can No Longer Accept Returns

This is very sad what is going on with ebay and its attitude towards the sellers.  The amount of scammers on ebay is growing because ebay refuses to do anything about all of these fradulant buyers. Now they want to help these scammers by telling us to offer free returns! I am sorry this happened to you but realize you are not alone.  Sad world we live in.

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After 19 Years of Selling on eBay I Can No Longer Accept Returns

This is all about dumbing down...being able to say "no" at the lowest level and have it stick without compromise.
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After 19 Years of Selling on eBay I Can No Longer Accept Returns

The fraudulent returns you speak of here are not uncommon anywhere else on the Web. This is a growing problem with Ecommerce in general. Many articles on the massive lossess businesss take due to fraudulent returns. Millions perhaps billions of dollars in lost revenue. This has a trickle effect on all involved including the website, the sellers, the future buyers because costs go up for merchants when they loose  revenue. The major articles I have read have stated this is not going to get any better. Pehaps much worse as more merchants switch to online sales. 

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After 19 Years of Selling on eBay I Can No Longer Accept Returns

I forget to mention, this problem also effects stockholders as well because as the problem continues to grow and the lossess get worse they start to worry as well.

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After 19 Years of Selling on eBay I Can No Longer Accept Returns

If ebay owned what is sold on their site, that could be true for them.
They lose NOTHING due to fraud except for the occasional courtesy refund.
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After 19 Years of Selling on eBay I Can No Longer Accept Returns

That's an excellent point




@spupilup wrote:

More often than not, it's quite the opposite.  By eliminating "Buyer's Remorse" options I'll be reducing my overall number of returns dramatically.  Lower that number will result in lowering the number of fraudulent returns.

 


 

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After 19 Years of Selling on eBay I Can No Longer Accept Returns

Well, return fraud also includes people sending back things they rent, and just return as well, and just change mind returns as well which cost them final value fees. Probably a lot of them.

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After 19 Years of Selling on eBay I Can No Longer Accept Returns

yes and no...a fee refund puts 'em back where they were...at zero.
A fraud victim is truly out something...that puts 'em BELOW zero.
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After 19 Years of Selling on eBay I Can No Longer Accept Returns


@spupilup wrote:

I am fully aware of what types of returns I will still be required to accept.  I spoke, at length today, with an eBay rep regarding my new responsibilities.  My biggest issue with fraudulent returns stems from "buyer's remorse" issues.  I'm fully aware that if the buyer had simply clicked the box saying "not as described" I would have been stuck with shipping both ways.  But, remember, just because they're thieves doesn't mean their smart.  More often than not, it's quite the opposite.  By eliminating "Buyer's Remorse" options I'll be reducing my overall number of returns dramatically.  Lower that number will result in lowering the number of fraudulent returns.

 


First, eBay CS reps are poorly trained and do not know selling.  Whereas I would agree it will reduce returns, I think it will also reduce sales ... tremendously.    I also suspect (I don't know) that it will increase fraudulent returns because "no returns" eliminates honest return reasons.

 

When you use the term "fraudulent", you are implying that a buyer is dishonest.  On eBay, a buyer does not have to be smart to be fraudulent with stealing from you or gaming the system, just dishonest - even stupid buyers can be successful at fraud because eBay enables it.  Why?  Even though you may say "no returns", eBay will enable dishonesty by still presenting the buyer with an option to do returns - their return reasons are simply limited to SNAD options and you are not only forced to receive the part that you didn't ship to them, but now you get the privilige of paying for the return.

 

I personally believe that "no returns" is not an option for combating fraud and theft on eBay.  It makes it worse.  The true solution is for eBay to fix the faulty MBG program - it is a program that is creating a bad reputation for eBay, and I fear that it may ultimately be the downfall of eBay.  But, I've been hoping for more than a year that they will do something, and ... well ... I don't think they think it is a problem.

 

What can you do?

 

Over the last year, I've purchased a couple of high-fraud items (cell phone) from sellers on eBay who have included a notice in their packages, a bright red or yellow card, warning thieves that they will pursue prosecution.  If I recall correctly, one such notice included:

  • An apology to the vast majority of their customers for having to include the note in the first place, but also acknowledging that they are trying to keep prices low while preventing fraud and criminal activity.  Crime increases prices for everyone.  Honest buyers should disregard this note.
  • Their note is specifically addressed to anyone who is contemplating switching out an old cell phone (or parts) for the one they just received and returning it fraudulently.
  • They articulate how they record and identify all items being shipped out (via photography, serial numbers, etc.).  In other words, they gather evidence in case someone should try theft.
  • They then say that if someone perpetrates criminal activity, they will file police reports, FBI reports (if the item is being shipped across state lines), and USPS Mail Fraud reports; and, will prosecute criminal activity.
  • One seller underscored this by saying that in the last year as a result of their prosecutions,  7 persons had been arrested and are awaiting trial for such fraudulent activity and that 2 were found guilty and received prison sentences.  I believe all were prosecuted by the Postal Service.

I don't think I would ever put such a note in my packages, but then again I don't sell items that have a high fraud rate - I've had instances of theft and dishonesty, but they are just a small percentage of my sales.

 

I simply post that here to give you another idea of how to be proactive in combating theft that is enabled by the Money Back Guarantee and eBay's return constraints on sellers.  If you want the exact text that one seller sent me, I threw the card away, but I could contact that seller and ask if he would provide the text or have him respond to this thread.

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After 19 Years of Selling on eBay I Can No Longer Accept Returns

I totally agree with everything you've said, our ratings have dropped for the same reasons, fraudulent buyers. I had 3 hit me here recently and just within the last year everything hit us hard. Business went from 99.8-100% now to 98.7% the defect rate is 1.98% and resolution is now .63% with trying to fight this nonsense has cost the business, so now ebay is now restricting how many items we can list and how much we can sell per month, because of this scamming going on, I've reported these buyers to ebay but I doubt anything will be done about it, except we're the seller so it's automatically our fault. Our positive feedbacks is 21098, we have an actual 10,000 sq. ft. store front, and also did well online for several years, until all of these buyers became more important than the sellers. I guess eBay wants to be Amazon. We're shutting the online sales down very soon, I am already deleting items, we don't have this much problems with people buying from the store locally. I wish you all great success dealing with this fraudulent society.
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