mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999
albertabrightalberta | Volunteer Community Mentor
Please forgive this lengthy post but I'm furious and I need to make other buyers aware of what eBay is doing.
I recently had a buyer to whom I sold more than $189 worth of ties for $97. Which I didn't have to do but I wanted to help the guy out since he was purchasing so many ties. As I was getting the order together, I noticed that I did not have one of the ties he had ordered. I immediately messaged him about this and offered for him to select a different tie at twice the value of the original, which he did. I issued a full refund the tie I didn't have and gave him the replacement tie for free. He agreed and I shipped the order.
A few days later, he messages me and says he didn't get "the most important tie the he ordered." I was certain that I included the tie. So after he messages me stating that he never received it, I contacted eBay preemptively to let them know that this buyer was going to try some funny business. I get a message form the buyer which stated:
"First, you didn't have the Bugatti, then the above Robert Graham wasn't included. Even though your seller rating is problematic, I believed you were committed and capable. While your efforts are noted, it isn't enough. I wish to return the order for a full refund or my review will reflect my disappointment.Thanks"
Here is the link to the original listing so you can review the photos of the listing:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/387351556306
At the suggestion of the eBay CSR, I requested that the buyer send me a photograph of all 8 ties he received in his shipment which he did. Here's that photograph:
As you can clearly see, the tie he ordered is sitting right there in the photograph. Now, my original listings were clear that I do not accept returns on vintage ties. This tie is not vintage and I wouldn't accepted a return. The buyer then leaves the following feedback:
"eBay has a satisfaction guarantee. The above tie was sold to me with 7 others but I found was subsequently replaced with unwearable vintage tie in received shipment. This was after seller told me he didn't have a Buggati tie for the order either. Seller said they couldn't find above tie. I said I wanted to return order which they refused. eBay has a growing problem with deceptive, lazy and incompetent sellers and I will never buy another item from anyone rated below 99.7%."
So eBay's feedback policy states the following:
"
Harmful, inappropriate or irrelevant comments and images
We remove all feedback that contains any:
- Content promoting hatred, violence or discrimination
- Profane, obscene, adult, illegal, or explicit content
- Opinions on any political, religious, or social issues
- Any implied or explicit threats or intimidation
- Personally identifiable information
- Links, URLs, or other content encouraging sales outside of eBay
- Infringement of third-party rights
- Meaningless content or images that aren’t of the item purchased
- Comments intended for a different item or seller
- Negative comments with positive ratings, or positive comments with negative ratings
- Personal attacks that could harm the reputation of the seller or their business and could not reasonably be viewed as constructive criticism"
It goes on to say:
"Extortion and manipulation
We remove all feedback that:
- Is used as a means to extort another member
- Is used to manipulate feedback ratings (see our Feedback manipulation policy)
Creating, soliciting, or using fake, misleading, or manipulated feedback is not allowed. Feedback should always reflect your actual experience with the product or transaction."
I have requested that this feedback be removed 10 times and eBay refuses to remove it because they say "it doesn't violate the policy, that the buyer is expressing and opinion, and that he is discussing something in the listing that wasn't as described."
Every single CSR that I spoke with has agreed with me. I have spoken with eBay leadership about this and they also agree with me that 1. the buyer violated the eBay feedback extortion policy when he demanded a full refund or "his feedback would reflect his disappointment." 2. the buyer's feedback is false. He did, in fact, receive the tie he ordered as per the photograph he submitted. 3. the buyer's feedback is not reasonable constructive criticism. It is a personal attack meant to damage the reputuation of my business. He outright lied about not getting the what he ordered.
The "Backoffice appeals team" refuses to review all the evidence here and because we, as sellers, are not allowed to contact them, I don't know where else to turn to have this removed. It is damaging my business and my sales have dropped to near zero. If I am missing something, please let me know. I can accept when I am wrong and I can learn and grow from it. I bent over backwards to help this guy out. eBay refuses to apply its feedback policy consistently and fairly.
A seller with a No Return policy is still required to process an INAD if the buyer files one. The seller may decide to accept a return of the items, but then that will require them to issue a full refund to the buyer.
The only type of return request a seller with a no return policy can actually deny is a properly filed Buyer's Remorse return.
The first thing I would suggest that you do is go to the Buyer's feedback page and look at the buyers and look at the tab called "Left for Others". Do you see them doing this very often to other sellers? If so, that would help give you a stronger case for Feedback Abuse. I hope you will come back and tell us [without personal details] what you see on their feedback.
Armed with that information, if you do see some abuse, please report the buyer for that via this link.
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/resolving-buyer-issues/reporting-issue-buyer?id=4084
Then go and request that your feedback be removed. You have the opportunity to explain in the request what happened. Be short and accurate in what you explain. Quote the feedback policy on the strongest points you feel you have.
Go to the Seller Help page. Towards the bottom of the screen you will see a place to click on to submit the feedback for removal.
https://www.ebay.com/sellerhelp/feedback?id=5566
You will receive an email within 24 hours telling you what they have determined. Please don't lose hope if they say no. You have the option to appeal the decision by contacting Ebay directly. However whatever their reason for not removing it, would you please post it here BEFORE you contact Ebay so we can help guide you for hopefully the results you are looking for.
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On each Ebay page there is a link to contact Customer Service at the top of the page and again at the bottom of the page.
I would suggest that you contact Ebay for Business on Facebook, Instagram or Twitter for the better trained CSRs.
Here are your options for contacting Ebay Customer Service. Please be aware that for social media CS, you send them a Private Message and briefly explain what your problem or issue is. Feel free to leave your Name, address, phone number and/or your email address in this message. It is private and secure and it may help to speed up the response for you.
https://twitter.com/askebay
https://www.facebook.com/ebay
https://www.instagram.com/ebayforsellers/
Your options will be on the left. If you use the link below you can only get to the Automated Assistant or Chat box type AGENT in the box and hit enter. You will then get more options. Not all options are available 24/7. It will depend on staffing available. So sometimes you can request a call back and sometimes you can't. Sometimes you have the Chat option available and other times it won't me. If it is important to you to use one of those options, just try back later.
If you use a cell phone or other mobile device, you may need to turn off your Spam filter so that Ebay can call you.
If you are a seller outside of the US or Canada, you will need to use the Chat Option.
https://www.ebay.com/help/eua?id=5275&mkevt=1&mkpid
https://www.ebay.com/help/home
@stainlessenginecovers wrote:This is what can happen when you list things 'no returns'.
I looked at the listing and you DO have a 30 day return policy with buyer paying return shipping (for remorse returns). For NAD, you would be on the hook for return shipping.
Yet according to the feedback your buyer left which said, "I said I wanted to return order which they refused," you didn't have a right to refuse the return!
When you have a return policy, you MUST accept returns for ANY reason.
I'm sorry but in this case, you were in the wrong.
The return policies options are as follows.
- No Returns
- 30 day returns w/ buyer pays shipping
- 60 day returns w/ buyer pays shipping
- 30 day returns w/ seller pays shipping, AKA Free Returns
- 60 day returns w/ seller pays shipping. AKA Free Returns
- 14 Day returns in certain categories
With option number 1, No Returns the seller can completely deny taking a return for a Buyer's Remorse Return Request. Or if they want to, they can accept the return and have the buyer pay the return shipping. If the seller so chooses, they can withhold the original shipping if it was separately stated on the listing [not free shipping] when it is time to refund the buyer.
On options 2 & 3 the buyer is responsible for the return shipping on a Buyer's Remorse Return. Plus, if the seller so chooses, they can withhold the original shipping if it was separately stated on the listing [not free shipping] when it is time to refund the buyer. As of October 1st 2019, sellers that are TRS have some additional protections as well as they can issue partial refunds if they use options 4 or 5 as their return policy.
On options 4 & 5 above, they are also known as Free Returns. If a seller that has either of those policies, they will pay the return shipping even on a buyer's remorse return. A seller can withhold the original shipping value from the refund if the shipping was separately stated in the listing [not free shipping]. Also, Seller’s offering options 4 or 5 have the ability to do partial refunds in certain cases if the item arrives back damaged, missing something or in a condition less than what it was sent to the buyer in, see the policy for more details, the link is below. In the cases where a deduction in the refund is taken due to damage or other authorized reasons for a partial refund, Ebay will protect the seller from negative or neutral feedback.
ALL OPTIONS [1, 2, 3, 4 and 5] are required to process SNAD claims without exception. Even if they are improperly filed and should have been a Buyer’s Remorse claim.
All return policies by sellers must meet or exceed what is stated in the Money Back Guarantee Policy!
14 day return policies are allowed in certain categories: Jewelry & Watches, Collectibles & Art, Cameras & Photo and Medical, Mobility & Disability Equipment.
For those with Free Return and/or TRS members with 30 day return policies, there are some added protection benefits, one of which is the ability to do a discounted refund under certain conditions.
@kandf_vintage_finds wrote:Sorry this is happening to you.
This all could have been avoided if you would have shipped what the buyer purchased.
For future know for certain you HAVE on hand what you have listed.
We are all human here and humans make mistakes from time to time. Some extremely good sellers make mistakes sometimes. Because we make a mistake from time to time does not mean we aren't good sellers.
The OP was very responsive to the buyer when they brought the problem up to the OP. The OP was a very good and responsible seller that may or may not have actually made a mistake. The buyer might of actually been after some free stuff.
