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Who Should I sue? Ebay or the Buyer after an injustice Case Decision.

Here's What Happened in simple Steps to make things quick. 

1. Buyer Received the Live Fish. "OSCAR FISH" 

2. Oscar Fish are known to Lay on their Side when stressed or feeling insecured. 

3. Yes, We offer Live Arrival Guarantee.

4. That is why we have a policy On the original listing saying IF there is a DOA (Dead on Arrival) then a Photo of the fish tail Chopped Off is required. 

5. The Buyer opened a return request. 

6. The buyer attached a few photo of the fish dead in the bag. 

7. There is no telling if the fish is really dead or just laying down. A still photo of the fish laying down can really manipulate  or convince you that the fish is dead even if the fish is really alive. 

8. We asked for the tail chopped off photo. 

9. Buyer refused to. Claiming, he want the fish to rest in peace and not chop off the body parts. 

10. We said the photo is required, and the buyer is stopped responding. 

11. It is nearing the end of the case time, so we contacted Ebay customer service through chat. 

12. Agent says she understand the situation and do see that the original listing Does say the photo is required. 

13. Agent suggest we give the customer 48 Hours to respond. If buyer does not cooperate, then contact ebay back to proceed further. We agreed. 

14. After 60 Hours, we contact Ebay again, through chat (due to Covid19)

15. A new agent reviewed the last chat and the case. Claiming because it's a request not as described, they can't do anything and if buyer refuse to respond, then the case will simply expire. 

16. We want the case closed because the buyer failed to provide proof the fish is really dead. 

17. The agent escalated the case as Seller opened a case on the request and the agent will put the case on hold for 5 days to allow time for the buyer to provide proof. 

18. After 5 days, the case closed at buyer's favor. 

19. We appeal. 

20. Ebay responded within 24 hours and apologize and said their decision is correct and the buyer provided sufficient proof. They will not reverse their decision because their decision is correct.  

21.  We email them and demand the appeal to reopen, explained the situation again. 

22. Ebay Respond within 24 hours and apologize and said they have already reviewed the case and still, will not reverse the decision. 

 

Overall, The buyer failed to provide sufficient proof that the fish is dead, even when he was asked to do so and ignored. The listing states that the photo is required. Then Ebay escalation team also failed to notice this and closed the case at buyer's favor when the proof is insufficient or not satisfying the original listing policy. 

Clearly, this is a Scam.  The fish costs us $15 and the buyer bought 2. Buyer Pays for shipping, but when the refund is issued by Ebay, we took a big loss on the shipping. That is over $50 in value combined loss. 
We are looking to sue Ebay or the Buyer and is seeking a Lawyer for small claim. 

It may cost us a lot, but at least it teaches the buyer or Ebay a lesson. Someone has to do something to protect the sellers on ebay. I am sure I am not alone. 

 

Maybe I am wrong, too. If I am, please explain where I am wrong so I can learn from my mistakes. 

 

Waiting for Ebay to respond again. If not satisfying, then I am going to talk to a lawyer about this. 
In the meantime, I am asking Ebay community for help and did you experience something like this, too. 

If yes, Put your Username down, and When I fight this, I'll fight for us all. 

Message 1 of 57
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56 REPLIES 56

Who Should I sue? Ebay or the Buyer after an injustice Case Decision.

You'll soon be learning the lesson that the buyer does not have to provide proof that the fish are dead by chopping them up into pieces and sending you photos of them.

Along with the price of the refund and the eBay/PayPal fees, this lesson will also cost you a defect on your selling account.

Message 2 of 57
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Who Should I sue? Ebay or the Buyer after an injustice Case Decision.

I feel for you.  Most of us have been through similar stories with what we sell.  The current state of the Ebay return system is called Simplified Returns and it is a hot mess.  99.9% of the time if Ebay is asked to step in, they will rule for the buyer.  When that happens you don't get your FVF back and you get a defect on your account.

 

I understand what you are doing and why.  It makes perfect sense to me.  However on Ebay you can't enforce the requirement of a pic with the tail cut off.  And Ebay would never be able to force a buyer to do that either.  Again, I do understand and respect why you want it, it just isn't enforceable here.

 

I don't know what a lawsuit would gain you.  You can't prove the fish was alive.  I know this is annoying at best and completely frustrating for sure but in the current return system on Ebay this is how this would always turn out.  Except if you get another one in the future, don't call Ebay, don't delay the processing of the return.  Just process the return without Ebay involvement.  It is healthier for your selling account.

 

That doesn't mean roll over and take it.  Our voices need to be heard on the mess the return system is in.  We need to keep the pressure on Ebay to do something about this policy that started October 2018.


mam98031  •  Volunteer Community Member
Message 3 of 57
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Who Should I sue? Ebay or the Buyer after an injustice Case Decision.

You should contact your attorney to ask them this question, of who you should sue over the loss of a $60 fish.

 

 

Message 4 of 57
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Who Should I sue? Ebay or the Buyer after an injustice Case Decision.

If you were to contact a lawyer who specializes in class action suits, and he started a class action suit against eBay, you might get satisfaction. It's unlikely you will get all of your $60 loss back. You would likely NOT have to pay the lawyer's fee. The lawyer, if he wins, will get a huge return on his efforts thru court-ordered fees that eBay would have to pay in any settlement. Perhaps he would be willing to make up the $60 from his fees.

The courts would likely order eBay to notify all the sellers who filed complaints during the last few years to register. The registered user would then participate in any payout ordered.
Message 5 of 57
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Who Should I sue? Ebay or the Buyer after an injustice Case Decision.

@best_deals_and_savings wrote:

”...If you were to contact a lawyer who specializes in class action suits, and he started a class action suit against eBay, you might get satisfaction...”


Except for the problem of agreeing not to bring class action lawsuits in the User Agreement. All sellers who do not opt-out of this clause have given their consent to forgo class action lawsuits in favor of binding arbitration. 

There is still the option of taking them to small claims court, but sellers also agree to the terms of eBay’s Money Back Guarantee. (Also in the User Agreement.)  This grants eBay final say in matters pertaining to the MBG. 

It is pretty important to know what one signs up for when opening a selling account here. Below is the link to the eBay User Agreement. See Legal Disputes.

 

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/member-behaviour-policies/user-agreement?id=4259

Message 6 of 57
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Who Should I sue? Ebay or the Buyer after an injustice Case Decision.

Most of us sellers have had similar situations. Ebay will always side with the buyer, regardless of what any CS tells you. I know it hurts the pocket, but write it off as a lesson, block the buyer and move on. 

Message 7 of 57
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Who Should I sue? Ebay or the Buyer after an injustice Case Decision.

wow - asking a buyer to chop off the tail of a dead fish seems extreme.

Message 8 of 57
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Who Should I sue? Ebay or the Buyer after an injustice Case Decision.

As well as not being a requirement by eBay for the buyer to prove his claim. 

Message 9 of 57
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Who Should I sue? Ebay or the Buyer after an injustice Case Decision.

There is one more thing...

 

If you sue ebay and you win, "ebay" won't be paying for it.

 

People keep thinking corporations are a person, they're not.

They consist of people yes, but none of them in particular have anything to do with much of anything at all, they just come in and do their job every day just like you and I... The job of any one person at a corporation is as related to your particular issue as one cog on a really big gear that is part of a huge transmission which goes inside a really big cruise ship is responsible for the fact that someone on the ship farted and you had to smell it.

 

In the end however it would be sellers and buyers who pay for that lawsuit.

 

And if you sue the buyer?

Wow...

Lets just say I agree with the bit about cutting off the tail seeming a bit extreme, then this would be way over the top.

 

 

 

Message 10 of 57
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Who Should I sue? Ebay or the Buyer after an injustice Case Decision.

I have had both freshwater and saltwater tanks, (and a koi pond for 12 years) so from that,  I know a little something about deceased fish. I know nothing in specifics about Oscars, but I would hazard a guess in saying that most fish play by the same rules of mortality. When I have had a fish that goes into shock or a pseudo dormant state, their gills are still moving. They are still drawing oxygenated water into their gills.  Even when I have sedated  fish, for a medical procedure, with clove oil  their gills are still functioning. They may be barely moving but they're moving none the less. And the rise remain crystal clear and not milky, as with the deceased fish. Shock is not synonymous with suspended animation.  Even in shock, a fish has two glean oxygen from the water. Dead, is dead, and that's all there is to it.  All intentions of a scam aside, if I were the buyer, I would have reservations about chopping off the tail of a potentially alive fish.

Message 11 of 57
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Who Should I sue? Ebay or the Buyer after an injustice Case Decision.

So you have lost a small amount of money and now you want throw more good money after bad money by going to court over a trivial amount of money?  If you find a lawyer who doesn't just fall off the chair laughing then run away quickly because now you are being scammed by the lawyer.  And don't forget that you must find a lawyer from the buyer's home state because that is where you will have to file a small claims case.  And even if you win in small claims court there is no guarantee that you will collect.

Message 12 of 57
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Who Should I sue? Ebay or the Buyer after an injustice Case Decision.

I stongly suspect you will not be perrmitted to sell with ebay allowing you to impose & enforce your own rules & policies that are in conflict with those of ebay.

 

 

Message 13 of 57
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Who Should I sue? Ebay or the Buyer after an injustice Case Decision.

Forcing someone to cut up fish is a rather appalling thing
Message 14 of 57
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Who Should I sue? Ebay or the Buyer after an injustice Case Decision.

Will you secure attorney opinion letters from several law firms ?

Message 15 of 57
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