Vero Restriction

[strangfordstraps]

Unfortunately I've been pinged for the second time by an American trademark troll (he managed to trademark a common term and is notorious for VERO attacks on anything remotely similar to his trademarked words).

Anyway, I've got a 3 day restriction and that's that, no more moaning.  Just got 2 queries:

1. After the restriction, will all my listings be kicking off slowly or go right back to normal?

2. I understand the next Vero infraction will result in a 7 days restriction.  Will this always be the case in the future or after 12 months will it reset?    

Many thanks!

[toysaver]

"I understand the next Vero infraction will result in a 7 days restriction.  Will this always be the case in the future"

No.  My understanding is you can be permanently banned from ever selling again.

[dbfolks166mt]

Curious what the listing was for and what trademark it violated? May be valuable information for other sellers. 

[strangfordstraps]

Sure, it's the term 'NATO' used in conjunction with watch straps.  Pretty much everyone familiar with watches agrees the term was coined in the 60s and this guy managed to get it trademarked in the States quite recently and has used VERO aggressively.

If you're not aware of watch straps, it's the equivalent of trademarking the term 'coffee mug'.

Ebay even offers the term 'NATO' in the drop down box for describing what kind of watch strap it is.  This is how he got me this time.  

[lacemaker3]

I suspect that the keyword was "NATO" because I found a couple of cached pages of OP's listings, which have since been removed from eBay. See the screenshots below.

There have been other reports of VeRO takedowns for using this brand name. I don't know if it is the company that makes the NATO brand watch straps, or the North Atlantic Treaty Organization that is making the VeRO reports. I suspect the former.

I found a few other listings for NATO brand items that also been removed recently. However, there are over a thousand active listings for NATO brand watch straps, and some of those listings have been active for several years as GTC listings. So the brand is not removing all listings with their brand name; they appear to be identifying some as counterfeits and having those removed. That is a valid use of VeRO.

Here is a thread from another seller whose listings were taken down; however, it appears that this seller was using the keyword for belts/straps he manufactured himself, although he had edited his listings to remove the keyword spamming at some point before they were removed. So that was a valid VeRO report, and the listings should have been removed.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/This-VERO-organization-grossly-violated-my-rights-I-do-not-hav...

[lacemaker3]

Update (too late to edit my previous reply)

According to this interesting website, "NATO" watch straps are a style, not a brand. Based on military straps that were issued to NATO troops beginning in 1973. They are also referred to as "G10" straps, which is short for the military model number: G1098

https://www.gearpatrol.com/watches/a85507/nato-strap-history/

Apparently, the key feature is an unusual strap arrangement. Looking at the pictures in the cached pages of OP's deleted listings, they may have had a conventional strap arrangement.

Perhaps that was the issue. The reported VeRO violations for OP's listings may have been because whoever trademarked the name is trying to "defend" the unique style that makes the NATO G10 straps different. Some of the other listings I saw which were removed were for pens called NATO G10, which is supposed to refer to a watch strap, not a pen.

I don't know if this is the true explanation or not, but it makes sense.

I don't know whether this use of a trademark is what the concept was originally intended for, but ... if there really is such a registered trademark ... the rights owner is entitled to defend his intellectual property.

Fun fact: Sean Connery wore a similar watchband in Goldfinger, filmed in 1963, but it was a one-piece, conventional strap, not the unique NATO G10 design.

Another update:

There IS a "NATO Brand", registered in the USA: https://www.natobrandusa.com/

[ittybitnot]

If you're not aware of watch straps, it's the equivalent of trademarking the term 'coffee mug'.

@strangfordstraps 

Thanks for the explanation.  I am so OLD and been here so long I recall the time when somebody trademarked the term "shabby chic" which was a generic term used in popular decor at the time.  A whole lot of sellers were getting Vero'd  as a result, and there was indeed an uproar around here.  

Don't know whatever happened to that, or if it is still a "brand name". 

[lacemaker3]

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@strangfordstraps wrote:

Sure, it's the term 'NATO' used in conjunction with watch straps.  Pretty much everyone familiar with watches agrees the term was coined in the 60s and this guy managed to get it trademarked in the States quite recently and has used VERO aggressively.

If you're not aware of watch straps, it's the equivalent of trademarking the term 'coffee mug'.

Ebay even offers the term 'NATO' in the drop down box for describing what kind of watch strap it is.  This is how he got me this time.  

---

I saw that you used the Item Specific:

Brand:    NATO

in at least one of your removed listings. That would have been a VeRO violation, unless your strap really was made by NATOBRANDLLC.

It's possible that you might have been safe if you had not chosen the wrong brand for your watch strap. However, at this point, your account is on the radar for VeRO violations, and you risk suspension if you get any more. So it could be risky if you try to relist without misusing that brand name.

[strangfordstraps]

Hi there,

Thanks for the reply.

Those cached images were from the first VERO strike a few weeks ago, not the latest one.  I had removed all mention of the term 'NATO' after the first strike and blocked many items from the US market, but I may have selected 'NATO' in 'type of strap' drop down box.

Most other NATO listings either exclude postage to the USA or have paid him for the right.

[stainlessenginecovers]

The restriction is that you cannot 'list' new items during that suspension. 

Current listings will still remain visible and buyers can still buy and you still need to ship.

MOST IMPORTANT: any listings that have that name in it that VERO did NOT remove; you need to remove them immediately. Just because they didn't catch and remove all doesn't mean you can't get turned in again for listings not originally removed, and get a longer suspension. 3,7,30 then indefinite is the usual route, but they can jump further down the line at anytime.  

[strangfordstraps]

Not quite correct.

Mine are the exact same traditional 'double pass' designs, created by the MoD. 

[lacemaker3]

Did you end this listing, or did eBay end it for you? https://www.ebay.com/itm/124703803518

That one includes the keyword NATO, so I wondered if you ended it in response to the VeRO, or if eBay ended it without completely removing it as they usually do for VeRO violations.

You might need to exclude postage to the USA, then. If he has a trademark, he is entitled to license the use of it as he sees fit. It may seem like ransom, but licensing agreements are legal, and accepted business practice. A few years back the Jaguar car manufacturer (currently JLR) licensed a saddle making company to use the name Jaguar and their stylized jaguar logo to market saddles. They were pretty good saddles too.

I noticed that none of your listings are showing up in search as being available to ship to the USA at the moment. On either ebay.com or ebay.co.uk

[downunder-61]

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@strangfordstraps wrote:

Not quite correct.

Mine are the exact same traditional 'double pass' designs, created by the MoD. 

---

MoD ? You are in the UK then ? Isn't it the DoD that would have created the design (as in NATO / USA)

Not up with the VeRO stuff so apologies if I have the wrong end of the stick

[lacemaker3]

@downunder-61, OP is in the UK, and according to the history website I posted, the NATO straps were issued by the UK Ministry of Defense to NATO troops. The UK is a member of NATO, which is based in Belgium.

[strangfordstraps]

Hi,

I appreciate the time you've put onto this thread.

Yeah, you're right, I should have been more careful and he technically has the right to enforce VERO when the term slips through.  It's just a bit frustrating.

I ended that particular listing for an unrelated matter actually.

I've currently removed the States as a sending destination and hoping this kills the issue.  Rather irritating but not as bad as being banned.