Return Request from Impossible Buyer

[sin-n-dex]

So on Saturday I received an eBay message requesting a return. (This is a remorse return, but in the effort to maintain reasonable customer relations I often provide a label to return something if it's a bit more expensive).

So request received, and buyer joined in the last month. I replied with detailed instructions on how to do a proper return request, what to select, and said when I see the request done, I would send a label with paid postage to Canada. I explained that I was using a reshipper and could not receive mail at the USA address on the package. This all happened on Saturday.

I don't hear anything from the buyer, and no return request, I'm figuring with two days having passed he's decided just to keep the token, or returning it is too much hassle, or something like that.

I get a message this morning from the buyer telling me it's too late for him to do any of that, he put my token in an envelope and mailed it to the USA address on the return label with a postage stamp. (He didn't say no tracking, but I asked for the tracking number so I could verify any of that, and I'm expecting to be told there isn't one).

OK, so I don't like to keep someone's money when they return something, but this buyer is impossible. He's somehow conveniently managed to follow zero instructions and return something with no proof to a place that I won't likely receive it. (I contacted the reshipper to explain, they will likely let me know that it came back if it does, but obtaining it from them will be difficult).

Would it be fair to assume if he did no return request, provides no tracking, and I receive no item, then there's no requirement for a return? (I know the answer, I'm just checking).

And the question is, is it possible to have any feedback removed that accuses me of accepting a return and not refunding, or any sort of verbage like that if there's a history of messages exchanged that prove what I've just said above? I understand buyers can express their opinion, but is a seller at all covered if it can be proven that something is factually incorrect? (And I already found out if said factual incorrectness is in the form of a positive, they won't do anything about it, unless it's obscene or against policy).

Cheers, C.

[vintagecraze50]

As far as I know, if there is no record of an item being returned via a tracking number, then technically the return did not happen. This is an ethical situation. If you get it back then refund. If you do not get it back then do not refund. Regarding the messages that the buyer is saying they will return it.  Well, they might return it or they might not--NO tracking added by the buyer, that's a big mistake for them. If they are trying to scam the item they could pretend to send it back--if they have no tracking and it does not come back to you, No refund.

[vintagecraze50]

If they go on to open a case saying they sent it back and there is no proof via tracking and you have not received it back, then I do not think they can win this. Sometimes people do not upload the tracking info when they decide to return something this way, but they may still have a tracking number. If they do then I guess they can just add that in a PP case, if it is a fake tracking number it will not show properly and again, no refund.

[vintagecraze50]

Regarding the feedback. If they leave neg feedback you can always repond to that feedback with something factual, "Buyer did not returned item". Removing it, IDK you would have to call and see.

[ted_200]

Since eBay is going to start counting Return Requests against you, it would probably be better to have the buyer just mail it back without one.  It's unfortunate about the reshipper issue.  If you get it back from them, let them know, ask them to agree to cancel the transaction, refund them, and cancel.  As long as you stay cooperative and non-confrontational, there should be no neg. 

Of course there's no tracking.  I'd forget about playing the "you didn't do it by the rules" angle.  If nothing never comes back that's helpful of course, but I doubt it will come to that. 

This is exactly how my one return to here from Canada went, they didn't want to buy expensive tracking, I didn't really want them to either, and the risk (which is minimal) is on them.  It's just unfortunate you couldn't have caught him before he sent it to the reshipper, I suspect he'd have gladly sent it to you in Canada the same way for $1.15. 

[coolections]

If you want to continue to sell on Ebay you really need to set up an address that works.

[sin-n-dex]

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@coolections wrote:

If you want to continue to sell on Ebay you really need to set up an address that works.

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There's a spot for outgoing address, and a spot for return shipping address.

My outgoing address is from USA. The return address in Canada is provided if you do a return request (which I instructed the buyer to do in response to his request to return it).

He claims to have mailed it out, but there's no proof of that. I don't know if he's just saying that, or if he actually did mail something.

Cheers, C.

[sin-n-dex]

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@ted_200 wrote:

Since eBay is going to start counting Return Requests against you, it would probably be better to have the buyer just mail it back without one.  It's unfortunate about the reshipper issue.  If you get it back from them, let them know, ask them to agree to cancel the transaction, refund them, and cancel.  As long as you stay cooperative and non-confrontational, there should be no neg. 

Of course there's no tracking.  I'd forget about playing the "you didn't do it by the rules" angle.  If nothing never comes back that's helpful of course, but I doubt it will come to that. 

This is exactly how my one return to here from Canada went, they didn't want to buy expensive tracking, I didn't really want them to either, and the risk (which is minimal) is on them.  It's just unfortunate you couldn't have caught him before he sent it to the reshipper, I suspect he'd have gladly sent it to you in Canada the same way for $1.15. 

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While the item is "more expensive" it's not so expensive that it will be great hardship to refund if I receive nothing back.

I decided to take him at his word that he sent something (as I have no proof at all, and if he did send it to the reshipper, his defense of ignorance is valid, it's just not within eBay's guidelines, but ethically he has a point).

Now I go to cancel, he's already said he wants to cancel and send it back. So when I cancel, now he has to confirm. It's not refunding him right now, he's sent him a cancellation request. It told me he has 10 days to confirm. What happens in 10 days? Is it automatically approved and he gets refunded?

I didn't share lots of details, but the buyer is impossible in part because he's difficult and doesn't seem to want to follow eBay guidelines, which means I expect him to ignore the cancellation.

Cheers, C.

[retrose1]

Sin, personally I am tired of buyers who don't read anything and think the world operates the way they want it to - and of course the seller will be footing the bill for that.

I would respond the way the buyer did. ....by acting like I never read their message and reiterate the original instructions on how to get a refund.  That they have to send the item back - with tracking, to the Canadian address.

Then wait to see what the buyer does.  I have a sneaky feeling that the buyer might still have the item and was hoping that since you said that you couldn't receive the item there, they said they shipped there hoping that you'll just refund.

If they get angry about it, then point out that you sent them detailed instuctions on how to return soon after the requested a return and if they did not follow them, then you will refund when you confirm that the item you shipped made it back to the address they shipped to......do they have tracking?  Let them realize that their lack of refund is all their fault, not yours.  You do not have to refund them.

[turquoisetulips]

If you want to continue to sell on Ebay you really need to set up an address that works. coolections to OP - unquote -----------------------------

From what I gather the OP does have an address that works  for returns  but the buyer either doesn't understand how to use it or he's pretending he doesn't . tulips 

[baantiques]

You have to draw the line of responsibility somewhere.  As much as I would sympathize with the buyer, they did not follow the proper return procedure.  You are under no obligation to offer any kind of refund.

[sin-n-dex]

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@turquoisetulips wrote:

If you want to continue to sell on Ebay you really need to set up an address that works. coolections to OP - unquote -----------------------------

From what I gather the OP does have an address that works  for returns  but the buyer either doesn't understand how to use it or he's pretending he doesn't . tulips 

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I'm going to revise my packing slip enclosure proceedure to ensure there's no confusion about where returns go. While this is the first time someone has told me they just returned it to the address on the outside of the package, it's not the first time someone did a return without submitting a return request. Most times though, the buyer will at least ask where it goes... I think I need to revise things to ensure there's no doubt for next time.

I found out USPS won't return a package to Canada (if mailed from NY), so the courier said to use their return address. The courier also said sometimes things are sent for their customers to their address. No guarantee that I'll receive it, but they do make an effort to help their customers. The best option is to ensure the returns address is enclosed when I ship. I've read on this forum stories of people receiving items back without the proceedure being followed.

Cheers, C.

[ted_200]

While the item is "more expensive" it's not so expensive that it will be great hardship to refund if I receive nothing back.

Well, if I never received anything back, I wouldn't refund.   Mail doesn't just disappear (it's exceedingly rare), except when it's an ebay item you sent w/o tracking, for some reason. 

I decided to take him at his word that he sent something (as I have no proof at all, and if he did send it to the reshipper, his defense of ignorance is valid, it's just not within eBay's guidelines, but ethically he has a point).

I suspect he did, although it obviously could be a scam to get you to refund without returning anything too.   

Now I go to cancel, he's already said he wants to cancel and send it back. So when I cancel, now he has to confirm. It's not refunding him right now, he's sent him a cancellation request. It told me he has 10 days to confirm. What happens in 10 days? Is it automatically approved and he gets refunded?

That's why I'd have waited until the item came back... everything eBay has an arbitrary clock attached to it, then you run into issues when the clock is about to time out. 

I didn't share lots of details, but the buyer is impossible in part because he's difficult and doesn't seem to want to follow eBay guidelines, which means I expect him to ignore the cancellation.

eBay is way too complicated, and buyers don't want to be bothered with, or get confused by, all the byzantine mumbo-jumbo of eBay.  I'm confused myself, since my last non-performing seller was able to cancel with "buyer's request" even though I never requested - let alone approved - any such thing. 

You didn't say... is your buyer a noob?  Although, it doesn't matter much, most buyers of (non-high value) numismatic items don't return stuff - he could have 15 years and 5,000 f/b and still be completely clueless about the "Return Request" process, and just returned it the same way he did last time (15 years ago).