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Rejected return case

So in a little situation here. I recently sold a watch here on eBay, went to authenticator and everything went well on the shipping side, buyer received it and immediately wanted to return it as it was too heavy and didn’t fit. (Was new watch and not sized to wrist) I don’t allow returns and offered to swap it out and gave other options. He was upset and demanded a return. Buyer went ahead and contacted his credit card company and they told him to ship it back. He went post office and returned it to the authenticator without my or ebays approval and eventually ended up back to me. eBay denied the return as it was not a valid reason for a return. I’m worried that his credit card company will give him his money back after I ship it back and could be a possible scam. He’s now threatening legal action against me. All help/suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks!

Message 1 of 42
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Rejected return case

that sounded much worse than it came out to be. I was just stating that... I want to make it right without myself getting scammed is why I posted here. 

Message 31 of 42
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Rejected return case


@toysaver wrote:

 

Seems odd, eBay will let people return pretty much anything for any reason.  'Doesn't fit' is a top contender for a valid return reason.   

 

 


No Clue WHERE you get that from. If you have 'No returns', a sellers can then 'opt' to NOT ACCEPT a return case for that reason (doesn't fit IS Remorse) and the seller will NOT have to refund anything and ebay will NOT take from the seller. 

 

Only if a Not As Described (NAD) is opened, then a sellers 'no returns' does nothing. 

Message 32 of 42
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Rejected return case

Well, that does not sound like the best thing to do, as i would like to come to a fair resolution. And he does not, as all watches over 2k get sent to the authenticator then they ship to the buyer.

Message 33 of 42
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Rejected return case

i tried to explain to him it that it does not fit because it's a brand-new watch and he needs to get it sized to his wrist. 

Message 34 of 42
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Rejected return case

Makes me think we aren't hearing the whole story.

 

Message 35 of 42
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Rejected return case

@zbenji289, this is a bit of an unusual situation. To summarize:

 

"I recently sold a watch here on eBay, went to authenticator and everything went well on the shipping side, buyer received it and immediately wanted to return it"

 

"I don’t allow returns" ... "eBay denied the return as it was not a valid reason for a return."

 

OK so far. You didn't have to accept the return, because it passed the authenticator, and did not have a return policy on the listing. eBay rejected the return request as should have happened.

 

"Buyer went ahead and contacted his credit card company and they told him to ship it back. He went post office and returned it to the authenticator without my or ebays approval and eventually ended up back to me."

 

eBay has no control over what the credit card does, or what they tell the buyer to do. At that point, the buyer's best (or only) chance of getting his money back like he wanted was to comply with his CC instructions. At least they told the buyer to send it back first; that's lucky for you. With chargebacks like this, sometimes they don't require the buyer to return, especially if the seller refused the request.

 

" returned it to the authenticator ... and eventually ended up back to me."

 

At this point, the CC company is expecting you to refund their buyer, because they have returned the item to you. If you don't, then the CC company can be expected to decide the chargeback in their buyer's favor, and give the money back. That would mean that the you have the watch, and the buyer gets their money back, which seems pretty fair, all in all.

 

Per eBay's policy, they (eBay) should protect you in this situation, but they don't always do that. It would mean that eBay would lose the money, which doesn't really seem fair, because you have the watch back.

 

You have two choices:

  1. You can return the buyer's money, less shipping if you want to. This would probably be enough to satisfy the CC company, and would be the most fair result possible in these circumstances. You would not be out anything in this scenario. You have the watch back, and the buyer had to pay for the shipping.
  2. You can not refund the buyer's money. The CC company will probably approve the chargeback and give the buyer a full refund.
    • eBay may give you a courtesy credit of the chargeback amount, because you should be covered by Seller Protection in this situation. eBay would be out the money, which isn't really fair.
    • eBay may not cover you under Seller Protection. You would lose all the money, get a defect for not resolving the problem, and eBay would charge you $20 for the chargeback.

 

Message 36 of 42
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Rejected return case

eBay may have denied the request but the problem here is that he has the credit card company on his side.

 

I’m really surprised that eBay authenticate didn’t check the returned watch. I agree with what @dhbookds said. I wouldn’t give a penny back without eBay’s guidance.

 

I also agree with much of what  @caseyplhas said here. Liberal return polices have created this toxic return culture where buyers walk all over us, buy-n-try, damage and return, bait-n-switch, rent for the weekend, etc.

 

He agreed to the terms of the sale before buying, including the part about “no returns”. eBay also denied the return, yet this person decided to go around eBay and make their own rules. Unfortunately, credit card companies want to keep their customers happy, so UNLESS there’s provable fraud this will likely not end well for you. And since eBay authenticate forwarded the watch back to you unchecked, it’s probably too late for that now.

 

You relied an eBay’s authentication service to do a job, but when they received the watch back, didn’t check to see if the buyer returned a $5k watch with a Timex movement inside? Because things like that DO happen.

 

Be prepared for a negative feedback.

I had a return from a buyer who damaged an expensive blouse to force a return. She refused to open the return request through eBay and sent it back on her own. When I messaged her about the big Sharpie ink stain on the front, she left me negative FB calling me a dishonest scammer.

 

I called eBay and they advised me to NOT refund and removed the negative.

 

Well it turns out she’s was no longer covered by eBay’s MBG because *checks notes* she had a history of this type of behavior and *checks FBLFO* the feedback she left told a story of a serial return abuser. And eBay continues to let these buyers shop here which tells you where eBay’s priorities are at.

 

If this buyer has opened too many returns, they may have lost their MBG protection, hence the return behind eBay’s back.

 

You have the watch and you have their $5000. That’s not exactly pocket change. Maybe the buyer didn’t know any better. I can’t tell you what’s right to do, but if I was in your shoes I wouldn’t feel ok keeping both the watch and $5000 unless the buyer pulled some type of scam…then they can kick rocks.

 

I would reach out to eBay for guidance on this, and document everything. I would also advise you to not send  the watch back—you may end up without a watch and $5000. 

Message 37 of 42
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Rejected return case

 Buyer went ahead and contacted his credit card company ....

@zbenji289 

To be clear:  

The buyer filed first filed an eBay claim, and lost. It appears the return was able to be denied because it was a remorse reason and you have a no returns policy. 

The buyer then filed a Payment Dispute (aka chargeback) which is still active 

Is this the present situation?  Was the Payment Dispute for the exact same reason as the eBay claim?   

If the original eBay claim was for "doesn't fit" it was a remorse return, if they have now claim "not as described" it will be deemed 'not for the same reason' and no seller protections for the chargeback are likely to apply. 

The rules and protocols listed on eBay with regards to the authentication procedure are for eBay claims, not Payment Disputes.  With that in mind, I would be VERY HESITANT to accept any direction from the regular tier outsourced customer service reps in this situation.  

Message 38 of 42
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Rejected return case

correct, FVF was about $450. With everyone's input, i will not ship it back. Ill just have to issue a partial refund as that's the safest thing to do. 

 

At this point a partial refund is probably the best bet but I would consult with eBay Facebook support before you actually issue the partial refund. Not sure what the watch sold for but take that figure and subtract (FVF's of about $450 + Shipping cost + additional insurance if you purchased any) = Partial refund amount. 

Message 39 of 42
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Rejected return case


@zbenji289 wrote:

Buyer went ahead and contacted his credit card company and they told him to ship it back.


Just to be clear:

 

Has eBay informed you that there is a charge back dispute for this transaction?

 

Or are you just going by what the buyer has told you that his credit card company told him?

 

 

Message 40 of 42
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Rejected return case

eBay has not informed me. I spoke with them last week and they don’t see any record of a char back yet. 

Message 41 of 42
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Rejected return case

eBay has not informed me. I spoke with them last week and they don’t see any record of a char back yet. 

 

@zbenji289 

 

That is certainly interesting.  I would be checking to see under what circumstances your final value fees would be refunded to you when a refund is made.  It would be a 'not so nice' result if you lost the fees that eBay already took for this sale.  Though no credit card chargeback has appeared, you don't know at this point if one is on the way, or how eBay will handle this when the buyer returns something anyway after the eBay claim was denied. 

@luckythewinner 

Good catch. 

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