Ohio - HB321 might also require auctioneers licensing for Best Offer listings!

[queencityvintageltd]

I just found out that a friend has been shut down by the state of Ohio Dept of Agriculture for running an "unlicensed auction" on HiBid...Neither of us were aware of HB321 and we've both been selling for years. When he specifically asked the agent about Ebay auctions, he was told he would need a license to sell here as well.

Here's the rub - the law also says this:

"A ”deal or no deal” offering is an auction if there are multiple offers being entertained and there is a rejection or acceptance of the offers by the seller at a predetermined date and time."

That folks, is essentially how the Best Offer feature works.  And every one of my listings is in violation under that interpretation.  The state has not issued written guidance that specifically addresses Ebay, but I'll be discussing this with an attorney now that I'm aware of it.

Why isn't there more outrage over this? 

Is any group addressing it at the state level?

[ckimodog]

@queencityvintageltd 

Wow...interesting post for many.  I personally stopped doing auctions years ago.  Got tired of being stiffed. 

Thanks for posting...appreciated. 😊

PS Let us know how it went with the attorney.  

[simba6]

The thing is you not really running the auction business, eBay is.  You using an auction house to sell your goods and you pay them a fee to do so.  Would seem eBay might need the license not the sellers.  It's like when you take an item to an auction house or resale shop to have them sell it for you, your not required to have and business license.

[monica-sells]

"...Specifically, the bill grants the
Department authority to regulate online auctions that are conducted by a human licensed
auctioneer. Additionally, the bill requires a person who auctions real or personal property via the
internet to be licensed as an auctioneer or auction firm..."

Lots of room for interpretation in this law. HB 321, as I interpret it, is not targeted/applicable to "online only" auctions, which, by default, are not directly controlled by an "auctioneer"....although that second sentence is ambiguous too....

It would be interesting to see/hear a legal opinion on the application of this law to "strictly" online auctions (with no alternative/coinciding human auction simultaneously occuring).

[monica-sells]

show your counsel this

https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/download?key=18696&format=pdf

Current law exempts sales of real or personal property conducted over the internet
from the law governing auctioneers, provided that they are not conducted in conjunction with a
live auction. The bill eliminates this exemption. The bill retains the exemption for an auction
mediation company. An auction mediation company is a company that provides a forum
through the internet for a person to sell the person’s real or personal property via submission
of silent bids using a computer or other electronic device.6 For example, eBay is an auction
mediation company.

[buyselljack2016]

No auction, or offers on my listings so maybe some fine tuning of such a bill would be needed to get me included in that hunt.

[my-cottage-books-and-antiques]

I haven't looked into the details of this particular law, but, generally speaking, you are free to conduct an auction (online or offline) of your own items without an auctioneer's license. It is only when you are selling someone else's property that a license comes into play.

[heckofagame]

A few states have tried to implement this. It failed to pass as those that would be affected said that since they had the license forced upon them, they might as well go into the regular auction business as well, thereby saturating the market with auctioneers. 

[queencityvintageltd]

I read that too, but interpreted it as "ebay itself does not need an auctioneer license, as they are providing the platform, but individual users do need licenses".

Am curious to hear how a lawyer interprets it.

[queencityvintageltd]

Did you fin that in the summary of the law?

The text in HB321 is:

""Auction" means a method of sale of real or personal property, goods, or chattels, at a
predetermined date and time, by means of a verbal exchange, regular mail, telecommunications, the
internet, an electronic transmission, or a physical gesture between an auctioneer or apprentice
auctioneer and members of the audience or prospective purchasers, the exchanges and gestures
consisting of a series of invitations for offers made by the auctioneer and offers by members of the
audience or prospective purchasers, with the right to acceptance of offers with the auctioneer or
apprentice auctioneer. "Auction" includes a sale of real or personal property, goods, or chattels in
which there has been a solicitation or invitation by advertisement to the public for an advance in
bidding using sealed bidding, provided that the bids are opened and there is a call for an
advancement of the bids."

They also use "personal property" ambiguously - in other sections "personal property" is used to mean goods not purchase for resale, and they are not subject to the licensing requirement.  However they specifically mention personal property here.

[queencityvintageltd]

Just a reminder that, in 2005, Ohio passed HB209 which specifically required licensing for "anyone who sells goods on the internet". There was such an outcry that it was repealed by emergency measure 4 days later. 

Thus, substitute Senate Bill 99 was passed, which contains the specific exemption:

4707.02(H) A person who sells real or personal property by means of the internet.

Note that, at the time, auction mediation companies (ie Ebay) were already exempt under 4707.02(C), but the law required a clause to also exempt users of auction mediation companies.   That exemption is conspicuously lacking from 2022's HB321.

In 2005, this was the DofA's stance on the issue:

"SB 209 which goes into effect on May 6, 2005 was inadvertently written so that anyone who is selling (via the internet which would include eBay auctions) property that was purchased with the intent to resell would have to get an auctioneer license. The intent of the legislation was to require those individuals who have auction drop off sites who are actively taking consignments from the public and who are selling the public’s property via internet auction to get an auction firm license."

17 years later, we have a new law which says exactly the same thing, yet there's not even a peep from anyone in the industry?  Similar to recent ATF rulings, this feels like a decision that isn't being fully enforced YET...but it's there nonetheless and we're all unwittingly racking up violations.

I have emailed the DofA legal office  requesting specific guidance with regards to Ebay and will post any response I receive. I also reached out to Ebay Mainstreet's legal folks.

[monica-sells]

You have obviously researched this thoroughly. Laws have a tendency to leave room for interpretation, so, yes, clarification/guidance from the lawmakers would be beneficial. Trouble is, half of them don't have a clue what they signed, so, it ends up on an ambitious Dept of Agricultures rookie inspectors desk with some local judge deciding.

[queencityvintageltd]

Isn't that the truth!   I'm hoping that the language about auction firms and online sales is meant specifically for consignment sellers, but it seems so vague otherwise...

[vickiey123]

Do you happen to have any updates on this?  I was informed when I contacted the Dept. of Agriculture that ebay sellers indeed need a license ...they are just the forum they said.  The way I see it they are the auctioneer as we pay them to do a service and back our sales/returns etc.  They also handle the money.  Any updates you have would be most appreciated.