Is eBay stealing from sellers?

[prettywoman-2012]

I had a return a few days ago, because someone did not carefully read the length description. The buyer selected, "Item does not fit," so that, the way I understand, is not the seller's fault when all measurements were provided in the listing text. The item price was 34.99 but as we all know, eBay charges 10% Final value fee (FVF) currently on jewelry (for those not enrolled in Managed Paymore). INCLUDING the 10% of the shipping cost the buyer paid for. 

Just checked my eBay account fees and charges. Sure enough, eBay returned to me the item price Final value fee - 3.49 - as a credit - but not the 10% of the shipping cost it also took from me at the time point of the order. In this case, the shipping was 4.00 bucks and I am entitled to the 40 cents eBay confiscated by charging a FVF on the shipping part of the buyer's payment. 

This is just one sale and one seller. Multiply the 40 cents (and many items ship for much more than 4.00 dollars, plus many have far more returns than I do) by 1,000,000 (1 million) sellers and you get 400,000 (four hundred thousand!) dollars if the seller does not notice it / or does not care to /or cannot get hold of anyone at eBay. Again, this is just ONE return to ONE seller (me) and most sellers have at least one return now, even the best ones, within the same calendar year, so the actual number must be tens of millions of dollars. I am assuming that returns are more prevalent for sellers who are selling electronic devices or high-end jewelry and appliances. 

Interesting way of earning enough to pay their CEO Devin Wenig 57 Million in the severance package. Now I am no longer wondering where they got the money for the exorbitant compensation of their Execs. 

PW

[mam98031]

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@dhbookds wrote:

so I'm working on getting clarification since I've seen sellers who withhold original shipping receive credits for the final value fee on the item.

@Anonymous thanks, that's our question..............I don't think there was one about a partial refund.

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What the OP did was a partial refund.  There are just two types of refunds, full or partial.

Some on this thread just are seeing some kind of distinction or difference between not refunding the shipping on a BR claim as being somehow different than other partial refunds on INADs.  I don't know why there would be a distinction between the two.  Seems a fair rule to me.  FVFs are refunded to the seller for refunds they give their buyers in the return process.  Clearly from this thread others don't see it that way.

[usgamecollector]

if you didn't refund the shipping why would you think you are entitled to that fee back?

[fern*wood]

So, was it determined that a refund of fvfs on shipping not refunded is warranted?  I read the response and still wasn't sure what the answer was.

[Anonymous]

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@fern*wood wrote:

So, was it determined that a refund of fvfs on shipping not refunded is warranted?  I read the response and still wasn't sure what the answer was.

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Hi @fern*wood, final value fees are credited in full when a full refund is issued. While I have seen pro-rated final value fee credits when less than a full refund is provided, our fee credit policy (linked previously) sets the expectation that a partial refund will not qualify for a final value fee credit of any kind. If a seller does not refund the original shipping, they won't receive a credit of the final value fees on shipping. 

[mam98031]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@fern*wood wrote:

So, was it determined that a refund of fvfs on shipping not refunded is warranted?  I read the response and still wasn't sure what the answer was.

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Hi @fern*wood, final value fees are credited in full when a full refund is issued. While I have seen pro-rated final value fee credits when less than a full refund is provided, our fee credit policy (linked previously) sets the expectation that a partial refund will not qualify for a final value fee credit of any kind. If a seller does not refund the original shipping, they won't receive a credit of the final value fees on shipping. 

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It seems to me that we are making this a bit more complicated to understand than it needs to be.

In my experience, specifically for a properly Buyer's Remorse request.  When I go to refund them and I have separately stated shipping on this particular purchase [not free shipping], I can withhold the original shipping from the refund given the buyer.

When I do this partial refund I've gotten the FVF return to me for the portion of the order I refunded but not for the shipping portion because I did not refund that.

The way you describe it above, I wouldn't automatically get the refund on the portion I refunded as it was a partial refund.  That has NOT been my experience.

So are you saying this is no longer true?  The link you provided before doesn't address specifically Buyer Remorse returns, only partial refunds and that is as you describe above.  Even the OP of this thread said they got their FVF automatically refunded for the partial refund they submitted to the buyer.

And does this also extend to sellers that make use of their ability to give a partial refund on a return request when it falls withing the guidelines Ebay provides for a legit partial refund.  Are we saying that when we do that, we too do not get a FVF refund for the partial refund extended to the buyer?  

@Anonymous 

[Anonymous]

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@fern*wood wrote:

So, was it determined that a refund of fvfs on shipping not refunded is warranted?  I read the response and still wasn't sure what the answer was.

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Hi @fern*wood, final value fees are credited in full when a full refund is issued. While I have seen pro-rated final value fee credits when less than a full refund is provided, our fee credit policy (linked previously) sets the expectation that a partial refund will not qualify for a final value fee credit of any kind. If a seller does not refund the original shipping, they won't receive a credit of the final value fees on shipping. 

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It seems to me that we are making this a bit more complicated to understand than it needs to be.

In my experience, specifically for a properly Buyer's Remorse request.  When I go to refund them and I have separately stated shipping on this particular purchase [not free shipping], I can withhold the original shipping from the refund given the buyer.

When I do this partial refund I've gotten the FVF return to me for the portion of the order I refunded but not for the shipping portion because I did not refund that.

The way you describe it above, I wouldn't automatically get the refund on the portion I refunded as it was a partial refund.  That has NOT been my experience.

So are you saying this is no longer true?  The link you provided before doesn't address specifically Buyer Remorse returns, only partial refunds and that is as you describe above.  Even the OP of this thread said they got their FVF automatically refunded for the partial refund they submitted to the buyer.

And does this also extend to sellers that make use of their ability to give a partial refund on a return request when it falls withing the guidelines Ebay provides for a legit partial refund.  Are we saying that when we do that, we too do not get a FVF refund for the partial refund extended to the buyer?  

@Anonymous 

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Hi @mam98031, allow me to summarize: 

• Sellers who issue a partial refund by withholding the original shipping amount from their refund have reported receiving a final value fee credit for the item price, but not receiving a final value fee credit for the original shipping amount
  • The help page I provided states that final value fee credits are not issued for any partial refunds
  • This is the discrepancy I am looking into, as our help page would indicate that any form of partial refund is not eligible for final value fee credits

While I am working to clarify the wording of our help page regarding partial refunds and final value fee credits, I can reiterate that a seller would not be eligible for a final value fee credit on the original shipping when they did not refund the original shipping. Whether a return is for a not as described reason or a remorse reason would not have an impact on what fee credits a seller is eligible for, it would only factor into what refund options are available to the seller. Fee credits are determined by how a seller refunds their buyer (ie. through an eBay process or outside of eBay), what amount of the transaction a seller refunds (ie. full or partial), and whether or not eBay had to step in to process the refund.

[bar-29368]

But even when the partial refund is for say a shipping overage, ebay still doesn't refund the FVF on that partial refund (unless you call in)

[Anonymous]

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@bar-29368 wrote:
But even when the partial refund is for say a shipping overage, ebay still doesn't refund the FVF on that partial refund (unless you call in)

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Hi @bar-29368, I'm not sure if your replay is asking a question or countering something I've said previously, but I can confirm that what you've stated is correct. Let me know if I'm missing another meaning from your post and I'll be happy to address any question or concern you may have.

[mam98031]

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@bar-29368 wrote:
But even when the partial refund is for say a shipping overage, ebay still doesn't refund the FVF on that partial refund (unless you call in)

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That has always been this way.  No change since the start of FVFs on S&H.

[mam98031]

@Anonymous 

While you are at it, getting that policy page updated to have more clarity, there is another thing they seem to have removed from that page.

When there is an Open INAD and Ebay is asked to step in.  If Ebay rules in favor of the buyer, the seller will not get their FVFs refunded.  Unless this has changed since it is no longer address on this policy page?????

[prettywoman-2012]

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@bar-29368 wrote:
But even when the partial refund is for say a shipping overage, ebay still doesn't refund the FVF on that partial refund (unless you call in)

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Yepp. They don't. Why should they? After all, they need it for buying food. Just imagine all that poor pink caviar that would otherwise go to waste because nobody else would buy it.

PW😄

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[erahettia0]

Dear,i got same question.i would like to give me an answer.Thank yo

[Anonymous]

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@mam98031 wrote:

@Anonymous 

While you are at it, getting that policy page updated to have more clarity, there is another thing they seem to have removed from that page.

When there is an Open INAD and Ebay is asked to step in.  If Ebay rules in favor of the buyer, the seller will not get their FVFs refunded.  Unless this has changed since it is no longer address on this policy page?????

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Hi @mam98031, this is addressed in the third bullet under the section of situations where we will not issue a final value fee credit: 

• You or the buyer asked us to step in, and the case was decided in the buyer’s favor.

More info can be found here.

[lisa_sweet_peas_vintage]

When you have several hundreds of hours invested in building your business in a “tool” your freedom of choice is greatly diminished as a result of the previous time investment. It may be factually true that one has a choice but when faced with the daunting task of rebuilding or pay for a solution, I do indeed feel as if my personal choice has been funneled into a for pay solution. I do already use those methods that you mentioned. I find currently that listing from the phone app. the most profitable. I feel that we are losing the richness of the selling experience for the buyer and being transformed into a catalog type buying experience. Just my P.O.V.