eBay

jcramer1513 · ‎07-28-2017

Under eBay’s Money Back Guarantee, a buyer can ask eBay to intervene if their purchase doesn’t arrive or isn’t as described, and the seller doesn’t offer resolution within a week. However, unscrupulous buyers can ignore any contact and raise a dispute with eBay’s resolution service, which sometimes authorises a refund without any evidence from the seller being considered. The latter has no recourse under PayPal’s seller protection scheme since this is invalidated when a buyer claims directly through eBay. Although eBay’s own rules require buyers to send disputed items back, refunds are in many cases released before this happens – or after damaged or substitute goods have been returned.

Can an eBay employee explain why eBay's policies are so overwhelmingly pro-buyer?

According to eBay, the buyer is always right. Whenever there is a dispute, eBay always rules in favor of the buyer. As of 2015, it's almost impossible for a buyer to be denied a return request unless it's due to buyer remorse or outright fraud. And only buyers are allowed to leave negative feedback.

Can an eBay employee please enlighten me to the rationale behind this policy? As far as I know, sellers are the ones who pay hefty 15-20% commission fees to eBay+PayPal. Sellers are the ones who spend hundreds of hours taking photos, writing descriptions, and managing their listings. With most items sold as BuyItNow, buyers are not even responsible for price discovery anymore. On the other hand, all the buyer has to do is click a button.

As a long time eBay seller, these are some of my personal experiences:
I sold an "iPod-compatible headset." The buyer opened an "item not as described" dispute, because "there was no iPod included with the headset." eBay forced me to accept his return. The headset was returned snapped in half due to poor packaging. eBay said I should accept the loss as a "cost to doing business."

When Ebay and PayPal promise that they are going to do what they can to protect the sellers and keep their money safe, they have a duty to do that under the law.

Sellets are FORCED ( even though Ebay will not admit) and scared into giving refunds. I know that I am nervous almost everytime I ship. MOST newbie buyers don't realize the impact they have on seller rating.

This article written in the guardian, " if an eBay seller is always right, who will protect the seller?".. intelligently sums up what I am experiencing.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/money/2014/jul/11/ebay-buyer-complained-decide-agai...

Obviously this must be A constant occurrence. There is now a class-action lawsuit alleging, "PayPal Accused Of Favoring Buyers In Class-Action Lawsuit."

sg51 · ‎07-28-2017

Can an eBay employee explain why eBay's policies are so overwhelmingly pro-buyer?

Mail delivery commerce has been overwhelmingly pro-buyer for 50 years now, since the advent of credit card payments, and a federal law protecting credit card buyers in most disputed cases.

During this time, mail delivery commerce has come to dominate retail. Something is working. Sellers are making money.

So that's the big picture. I very much agree, in some cases, ebay has not understood the overly coercive effect that some of their policies have on sellers.

thatsallfolks · ‎07-28-2017

@jcramer1513 wrote:

Can an eBay employee please enlighten me to the rationale behind this policy? As far as I know, sellers are the ones who pay hefty 15-20% commission fees to eBay+PayPal. Sellers are the ones who spend hundreds of hours taking photos, writing descriptions, and managing their listings. With most items sold as BuyItNow, buyers are not even responsible for price discovery anymore. On the other hand, all the buyer has to do is click a button.

eBay's profits are dependent on buyers, not sellers. eBay has way more sellers than it needs. Please don't make the mistake of believing that sellers are the key to eBay's success.

Aside from that, given that eBay has no way to determine who is telling the truth in a dispute, they believe the best solution is complete reversal of the transaction.

sg51 · ‎07-28-2017

I sold an "iPod-compatible headset." The buyer opened an "item not as described" dispute, because "there was no iPod included with the headset." eBay forced me to accept his return.

You can imagine why this is as it is.

If seller could force buyer to accept a disappointing purchase by showing that the listing was correct, we'd end up with a whole lot of correct, but deceptive listings. And, we'd end up with a massive amount of disputes which required some human judgement, judgement by a human not necessarily qualified to understand the nuances of a given sale.

rw011164 · ‎07-28-2017

I am not an ebay employee, but they normally do not come in the forums to answer questions, the forums are largely member to member though occasionally an ebay employee might come here to add clarification.

There are, in fact a couple of seller protections, but they are very specific and very limited. Sellers are protected from an item not received case when they have uploaded and online viewable tracking that shows the item delivered. Sellers are protected from negative feedback on an UPI case.

Buyer protections are much grander in scale and include the MBG for items received damaged or not as described. Both of these requirements are highly subjective and sometimes misused. Sellers are never protected from a buyers MBG- that is a buyers protecting. Sometimes sellers take a loss with such a claim, but often the seller just gets the item back to resell and are just out the costs of shipping.

A good seller values a strong MBG since a strong MBG= buyer confidence and buyer confidence= more sales

This is not just ebay culture it is online sales culture

pantlandia · ‎07-28-2017

I don't rely on anyone other than myself to protect me. I do what I can to reduce the chances of a bad transaction as much as I can. In the end, I'm the one who loses, no matter what.

Also, just because there IS a class-action lawsuit doesn't mean it's going to be won.

pingpong517 · ‎07-28-2017

from my years in Retail, and LIFE... it is always favors the buyer... it is just the fact of business... you make the customer happy , they buy more, their friends buy more, etc...you stay in business.

think about a business plan where you make customers mad more often than happy, even 51%-49%...

you will see a slow decline .... in customers.... slow less, but the point is.... happy buyer , happy business

Ebay shades on the buyer..ok more than shades... SO sellers have to know that and expect not "winning" cases...and returning/refunding more than they would "IF I RAN THIS THING!"

but yes it is true that is makes it hard for small seller here....but it seems that small sellers isn't what they are trying to keep either..... change is here....

southern*sweet*tea · ‎07-28-2017

@pingpong517 wrote:
from my years in Retail, and LIFE... it is always favors the buyer... it is just the fact of business... you make the customer happy , they buy more, their friends buy more, etc...you stay in business.

think about a business plan where you make customers mad more often than happy, even 51%-49%...
you will see a slow decline .... in customers.... slow less, but the point is.... happy buyer , happy business

Ebay shades on the buyer..ok more than shades... SO sellers have to know that and expect not "winning" cases...and returning/refunding more than they would "IF I RAN THIS THING!"

but yes it is true that is makes it hard for small seller here....but it seems that small sellers isn't what they are trying to keep either..... change is here....

I don't know about that. Supposedly Ebay has been trying to get rid of small sellers for a decade now, and yet there are millions of them. I think that small sellers are more than welcome as long as they toe the Ebay line - whatever and wherever that line may be at any given point in time.

It's not 1999 anymore. Sellers don't rule the roost now, buyers do. All sellers (unless you are one of the golden children) - big, small, and the occasional closet cleaner - have to keep up with trends in online retail, otherwise the site as a whole will go down because buyers will shop elsewhere.

Just my two cents FWIW

(as to the OP's question, who is protecting the seller? I protect myself. I don't depend on Ebay or any other venue to do so, because they will not. Self insurance is how, and all sellers should do it.)

The easier you are to offend the easier you are to control.

We seem to be getting closer and closer to a situation where nobody is responsible for what they did but we are all responsible for what somebody else did. - Thomas Sowell

tev4all · ‎07-28-2017

@thatsallfolks wrote:
@jcramer1513 wrote:

Can an eBay employee please enlighten me to the rationale behind this policy? As far as I know, sellers are the ones who pay hefty 15-20% commission fees to eBay+PayPal. Sellers are the ones who spend hundreds of hours taking photos, writing descriptions, and managing their listings. With most items sold as BuyItNow, buyers are not even responsible for price discovery anymore. On the other hand, all the buyer has to do is click a button.

eBay's profits are dependent on buyers, not sellers. eBay has way more sellers than it needs. Please don't make the mistake of believing that sellers are the key to eBay's success.

Aside from that, given that eBay has no way to determine who is telling the truth in a dispute, they believe the best solution is complete reversal of the transaction.

I have to disagree with the above bolded statement

Without sellers/listers there would be no buyers/browsers. ebay's marketplace profits are based on the main assumption of having browsers making purchases. Without items being purchased from sellers listing for free or through seller store subscription they would have have miniscule/nada profit from the marketplace structure.

You have to have items for sale for there to be buyers.

No listings = no broswers.

pingpong517 · ‎07-28-2017

@pingpong517 wrote:
from my years in Retail, and LIFE... it is always favors the buyer... it is just the fact of business... you make the customer happy , they buy more, their friends buy more, etc...you stay in business.

think about a business plan where you make customers mad more often than happy, even 51%-49%...
you will see a slow decline .... in customers.... slow less, but the point is.... happy buyer , happy business

Ebay shades on the buyer..ok more than shades... SO sellers have to know that and expect not "winning" cases...and returning/refunding more than they would "IF I RAN THIS THING!"

but yes it is true that is makes it hard for small seller here....but it seems that small sellers isn't what they are trying to keep either..... change is here....

and remember EBAY gets paid by ads being seen and looked at and clicked on, by the people.."buyer" who log on to the site... so the more they click...and see ads.... the more revenue comes from companies outside...right... so happy buyers ...make happy ebay... and occionally a seller get a sale.

tev4all · ‎07-28-2017

@jcramer1513 wrote:
Under eBay’s Money Back Guarantee, a buyer can ask eBay to intervene if their purchase doesn’t arrive or isn’t as described, and the seller doesn’t offer resolution within a week. However, unscrupulous buyers can ignore any contact and raise a dispute with eBay’s resolution service, which sometimes authorises a refund without any evidence from the seller being considered. The latter has no recourse under PayPal’s seller protection scheme since this is invalidated when a buyer claims directly through eBay. Although eBay’s own rules require buyers to send disputed items back, refunds are in many cases released before this happens – or after damaged or substitute goods have been returned.

Can an eBay employee explain why eBay's policies are so overwhelmingly pro-buyer?

According to eBay, the buyer is always right. Whenever there is a dispute, eBay always rules in favor of the buyer. As of 2015, it's almost impossible for a buyer to be denied a return request unless it's due to buyer remorse or outright fraud. And only buyers are allowed to leave negative feedback.

Can an eBay employee please enlighten me to the rationale behind this policy? As far as I know, sellers are the ones who pay hefty 15-20% commission fees to eBay+PayPal. Sellers are the ones who spend hundreds of hours taking photos, writing descriptions, and managing their listings. With most items sold as BuyItNow, buyers are not even responsible for price discovery anymore. On the other hand, all the buyer has to do is click a button.
As a long time eBay seller, these are some of my personal experiences:
I sold an "iPod-compatible headset." The buyer opened an "item not as described" dispute, because "there was no iPod included with the headset." eBay forced me to accept his return. The headset was returned snapped in half due to poor packaging. eBay said I should accept the loss as a "cost to doing business."

When Ebay and PayPal promise that they are going to do what they can to protect the sellers and keep their money safe, they have a duty to do that under the law.

Sellets are FORCED ( even though Ebay will not admit) and scared into giving refunds. I know that I am nervous almost everytime I ship. MOST newbie buyers don't realize the impact they have on seller rating.

This article written in the guardian, " if an eBay seller is always right, who will protect the seller?".. intelligently sums up what I am experiencing.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/money/2014/jul/11/ebay-buyer-complained-decide-agai...

Obviously this must be A constant occurrence. There is now a class-action lawsuit alleging, "PayPal Accused Of Favoring Buyers In Class-Action Lawsuit."

The seller/lister must take the responsibility of protecting themselves. ebay may help you in certain cases, however the buck stops with the seller. Each seller has the option prior to listing an item, to read and follow ALL the rules and policies of any site they want to post on. When those rules and policies don't jive with the lister, the lister should move on to a site they do jive with.

Sorry this situation turned out different than you hoped, in the future, don't list any item anywhere, you can't afford to lose.

proshooter · ‎05-01-2018

They keep taking from sellers.

https://nypost.com/2018/04/30/man-claims-comic-buyer-stiffed-him-through-paypal-loophole/

2015.sitav · ‎05-01-2018

You have to find a good alternative to ebay to make sales on. Facebook market places carry very little risk for sellers and put much more onus on a buyer's reputation for instance and you will often find said market places in constant busy-ness and easy to do business on. Ebay has a lot of traffic, no question about it - but depending on what you are selling there are better sites out there nowadays than Ebay who offer more seller protection and better margins. Facebook is honestly very easy to use depending on what you sell, with onus on the buyer, and a lot lower risk than doing business on ebay (for me its collectibles ie). Basically you have to look out for yourself, because ebay won't.

vintagecraze50 · ‎05-01-2018

Several ways to protect yourself here:

1) Always use a tracking number and preferably signature tracking-- especially on items over several hundred dollars, cuts down on buyer claiming not received.

2) Clear, consise listings with many good pictures-cut down on misunderstandings by the buyer and returns, and Not as describes.

3) Insure expensive items-cuts down on loss due to postal mishaps.

4) Check out feedback left for others on buyers where you can to see how they conduct business with other sellers.

5). Do not ever do a transaction off ebay. Cuts down on fraud. Never respond to an email from a buyer asking you for your account info on Pay Pal or anywhere else in order to pay you. This is always a scam.

6) Respond to return requests quickly and approve returns when they ask. Cuts down on buyers opening cases on you and going to their charge card with a chargeback which are a nightmare.

7) Offer free ship back if you can--buyers open not as described cases that are sometimes false claims becuase they do not want to pay for return shipping. Add the cost to your other inventory to make up the loss.

😎 Remember the odds are against you with a buyer from the getgo because they are protected by various consumer protections, much more than the seller, so always do what is right for the buyer.