How do I prevent this scam?

[amesrg]

I have a buyer who wants to return an item.  So I purchased a return shipping label and eBay confirmed he received it.

However, he claims the shipping label does not work.  So I checked with UPS who confirmed it is fine and perfectly valid for the return shipment.

The word I got from eBay is they don't check with UPS - if the buyer says the shipping label doesn't work then they assume he is telling the truth.  eBay says I have only four days until they refund his money and allow him to keep the item (a $1000 camera lens).

Obviously this is a scam.  And, of course, eBay doesn't care.

Other than filing a police report and small claims court case, which I absolutely will do if necessary, what can I do?

[cstpos]

@amesrgHave you tried sending him another return label? We use Fedex and they don't charge for a label until it's been used. USPS charges right away, but you can always request to cancel and get a refund. Did you send the return label using ebay, or did you purchase it directly from UPS, then sent it to the buyer?

I would ask the buyer what is happening when they tried to ship the package using that 1st return label. Did he try to print it, or did he bring it to UPS and have them scan it on his phone? Either way, I would send him another label. Let him know you're trying to find out what the problem was with that 1st label so you don't get charged for it. I would ship with extra insurance.

[ms.rodriguez*]

So you purchased the label through Ebay?  The buyer got it. Did they print it? Tell him that you called Ebay and ebay said that the label is good. They have to print, tape it to the box and take the box to UPS.  Let him know that if any postage is due, you will gladly pay for it when the package arrives.   Somehow convey to them that they seem to be hesitating about returning and Ebay is aware.  Hopefully that is enough to get them to return the item.   Keep us posted.

[toomuchstuffagain35]

" eBay says I have only four days until they refund his money and allow him to keep the item (a $1000 camera lens).

I would be calling ebay, or better yet contact the reps through ebay for Business on FB, and ask WHY ebay would refund a buyer who refused to return an item for a refund.

[amesrg]

I have called eBay, multiple times, and they confirmed it is a legitimate label - you can track it and it shows up on the UPS website as "waiting shipment".  They also said that if the buyer cannot get the label to work then he keeps the lens and gets a full refund.

I tried to purchase the label through eBay but, again after phone calls to eBay, I discovered that something about the transaction precludes me from purchasing it through eBay.  So I purchased one directly from UPS and sent him a picture, which is the only option via eBay messaging.  One of his claims is that it's not valid unless it's a PDF, which cannot be sent via eBay messaging.  

I offered to send him a PDF if he gave me an email address.  I also offered to have the item picked up.  I also offered to have the label delivered to his UPS store if he gives me the store #.  He did not respond to any of those suggestions.

It's definitely a scam.  And eBay is on his side.

I guess I just have to get the police and small claims courts involved.

[inhawaii]

If you purchased the return shipping label through ebay, it doesn't matter what the buyer claims.

If the package is returned to you ... refund.

If the package isn't returned to you ... no refund.

[amesrg]

"If you purchased the return shipping label through ebay, it doesn't matter what the buyer claims.

If the package is returned to you ... refund.

If the package isn't returned to you ... no refund."

Understood - that's part of the scam.  He figured out how to prevent me from purchasing the label through eBay.  Like I said, I tried to but eBay says the transaction is not eligible to purchase a return shipping label through eBay.  They could not explain why.

And eBay clearly says that if the buyer cannot get the label to work then he will get a full refund and keep the lens.

[amesrg · Accepted solution]

I guess the lesson here is eBay needs an option that says "Only accept transactions that are eligible for eBay-provided return labels"

Otherwise, you get scammed when people claim the return labels don't work.

[kensgiftshop]

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@amesrg wrote:

"If you purchased the return shipping label through ebay, it doesn't matter what the buyer claims.

If the package is returned to you ... refund.

If the package isn't returned to you ... no refund."

Understood - that's part of the scam.  He figured out how to prevent me from purchasing the label through eBay.  Like I said, I tried to but eBay says the transaction is not eligible to purchase a return shipping label through eBay.  They could not explain why.

And eBay clearly says that if the buyer cannot get the label to work then he will get a full refund and keep the lens.

---

Is the buyer located in another country?

Did they use a freight forwarder?

[amesrg]

No - US buyer in Florida.

[toomuchstuffagain35]

If the buyer claims the label doesn't 'work' then he need to FIND a way to return the item WITH tracking and proof of delivery.

Whatever the buyer's excuse ebay should NOT refund the buyer unless they can PROVE they returned the item to the seller. Period.

I still say contact the ebay reps on Facebook

[amesrg]

That is not consistent with what eBay is telling me.  Here is the message I got from eBay (name redacted):

Hello Richard,

I'm contacting you about the return request XXX filed for Near-Mint Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 DG DN for E-mount w/ Orig. Packaging/Accessories (XXX) by _SCAMMER_.

I've reviewed the details of the request. The buyer is returning the item for a full refund. A return label was provided to the buyer, but there was an issue with that return label. We're asking you to take further action to arrange return shipping.

I’ve placed the request on hold for 4 days to give you time to arrange the return shipping with the buyer. Please note that if you don’t resolve the issue by May 19, 2023, we’ll issue the buyer a full refund on your behalf without requiring the item to be returned.

There are several ways to provide return postage for your buyer. To learn more about your options, please visit the Return shipping options page.

Thanks for your patience and understanding.

Thanks,

eBay

[THREAD ID: 1-463582813831]

[r_lresale]

@amesrg How long ago was this purchase? I'm not seeing this item under your solds on this ID but I'm guessing that address WAS a freight forwarding address and your buyers account is registered outside of the United States. If that is the case then the label you sent the item would have been required to be returned from the Florida address and the buyer would be responsible for paying to get it back to the freight forwarder before using the return label. Go to your buyers actual account page and see what country they are registered at. Also double check that address and see if it is indeed connected to a freight forwarder and if so the buyer lost thier protections through ebay (get proof and submit to ebay and have return closed). 

[inhawaii]

The milion dollar question is ... if you didn't do a return label through ebay,  HOW did you provide a return label to the buyer?

[amesrg]

The sale occurred on Apr 29.  His "about" says his location is United States.

I was able to track him down via a previous name that has since been changed on eBay.  The name was changed right after I shipped the lens to him.

The address is legit - I have evidence of a person with the name I sold it to at that address.  It's residential.  I'm confident that's where the guy is because I found some YouTube videos related to that person and some of them clearly showed the residence I saw on Google Maps.

This is not an issue with a forwarded address.  It was sent to the address in Florida and the guy lives there.

The issue is eBay disallows purchase of return labels for some transactions.  And if you can create that situation, you can buy whatever you want, request a return then deny that the non-eBay label is legitimate.  Then eBay refunds your money and you keep the item.

What I need to know is how to determine when a transaction is not eligible for a return label through eBay.  That's the only way I can see to prevent this kind of scam.

There is nothing I can do because eBay *does*   *not*    *care*

I can keep sending him labels but he'll just keep saying they don't work.  Or they're not PDF.  Or whatever.  It doesn't matter - he just has to claim the label is invalid and eBay believes him.  Then they refund him and he keeps the lens.

My only options now are law enforcement and small claims court.