Fraud

[robhutch-58]

I have tried contacting eBay directly. Unfortunately the customer service is non existent. I sold an item to someone with a no return policy. Even sold at a discount. Guy received said it didn't match description. I said ok, if your not happy I'll just accept the return, and it's whatever. I'll just repost it and hop someone can read a description before they buy. Long story short. This guy files a dispute with his bank and gets a refund. That's fine. But then eBay also charged my card for the refund, which makes no sense the guys been paid. And I didn't authorize it. This has been quite a while. Still haven't received my item in the mail. eBay shouldn't have charged me until I at least got my item back so I can recoup my money. I have been ripped off essentially. The guy has either been refunded twice on top of probably reselling the item at this point. And what have I gotten? Charged for the item that's already mine, and have not received the return. So I have just gotten a big middle finger from eBay. Thanks for selling with us though right?

[farmalljr]

Charge backs with the bank typically do not require the buyer to return. 

That's how this selling thing works. You can appeal with eBay, but if they had to force a refund from you, you'll never win a case. You only have a very SMALL chance of winning if you refunded on your own accord. 

[robhutch-58]

That's the problem. It was supposed to be setup as I get my item back, he gets refunded. That's what we agreed to. That's only reason I accepted it. It wasn't a refund it was a return. 

[orangehound]

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@robhutch-58 wrote:

I have tried contacting eBay directly. Unfortunately the customer service is non existent. I sold an item to someone with a no return policy. Even sold at a discount. Guy received said it didn't match description. I said ok, if your not happy I'll just accept the return, and it's whatever.

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I'm assuming the buyer filed a Money Back Guarantee claim.  If so, did you (a) respond to the claim in the eBay returns interface, communicating that you were willing to pay for the item to be returned; or (b) did you just send the guy a message through the eBay system?

Your story sounds like (b) ... and if so, then eBay would have automatically refunded the customer because you did not respond to the Money Back Guarantee claim.

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As for the second part of this story (the credit card chargeback), I also wonder if you ignored messages that came from eBay concerning this.  You have to respond to the chargeback claim.

[robhutch-58]

I responded to everything up to the point that eBay communicated no further action was necessary on my end. I was very transparent with everyone, and didn't ignore anything. It was my understanding that since I sold the item as is and no returns accepted the buyer would be expected to return the item on them, if they wanted the refund they would be expected to do that. At which point once I received the item back I'd be expected to refund that money. I was never asked for any payment from anyone. I was told by eBay the buyer put a claim in with said bank and that I had no further action. The only thing I was expected to do was if I received the item back that I'd send them a refund or it would be deducted from my funds either or.

[orangehound]

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@robhutch-58 wrote:

I sold the item as is and no returns accepted the buyer would be expected to return the item on them, if they wanted the refund they would be expected to do that. 

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OK, a couple of things.

1. There is no such thing on eBay as "as is and no returns accepted" ... eBay has the Money Back Guarantee (MBG) for buyers, so if a buyer claims that the item is not as described in the listing, then they can (a) return it and get a refund or (b) get a refund without having to return it ... the seller makes the decision whether (a) or (b).
2. If the seller wants the item back when there is a MBG claim, then the SELLER has to pay for the return shipping.  If you do not accommodate the return shipping, then the buyer keeps the item.

You probably need to read up on the policies surrounding the Money Back Guarantee.

Also, if at any point you elevated the claim as in "Asked eBay to step in", then they will refund the money without requiring a return since your listing had "no returns accepted".

[robhutch-58]

Money back guarantee protects the buyer. But maybe eBay needs to be more transparent, during the process there was very little information given. I support the money back guarantee to protect buyers. I requested the item be returned. And would have paid the return shipping but I was never instructed or asked too. I just got no further action needed. My biggest issue is the guy got refunded via his bank. Then I shouldn't be charged. He got his money. So who gets my money now? Him? Or is eBay keeping it? Either way everyone was paid. eBay got the cut they request for fees I got paid he got the item and paid. It's bogus. Noone ever asked me to pay the return shipping or I would have if it were necessary it would have cost me ~10$ instead of 300$. This whole exchange was very shady. I'm not even trying to say it's all eBays fault because this guy shouldn't have requested a refund from bank that quick if eBay was going to refund him. And at same time this guy shouldn't get money from bank, eBay, and keep my item. That's just that simple.

[glorybells]

The fee you got charged was not for the refund, but was a fee that the buyer’s bank charges for them having to do the chargeback.

[albertabrightalberta]

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@robhutch-58 

"I support the money back guarantee to protect buyers. I requested the item be returned. And would have paid the return shipping but I was never instructed or asked too."

It sounds like the buyer contacted you through a message to say that the item wasn't "as described." If that was the case, your reply should have been to open a return request. 

Once he opened the request, you would accept, supply the return shipping label (for which you would be charge) and he would return the item in order to get his full refund. 

"My biggest issue is the guy got refunded via his bank. Then I shouldn't be charged"

When you didn't supply the return shipping label, he went to his bank. With the chargeback, the bank credited him but they got the money from ebay and in turn, ebay took the money from you. 

"eBay got the cut they request for fees" 

When the buyer filed the chargeback, ebay retained their fees. Had you accepted the NAD return request and issued a refund on receipt of the returned item, you would have been credited for the fees. 

The bottom line is that you lost the item and the money because you didn't handle the buyer's "not as described" return request properly. 

[robhutch-58]

I do support the buyers. I was the one that opened the return, I did everything as I should. I'm unsure what part of comprehension your all missing here. But I was never given an option to provide a return label. Again had I had the opportunity I would have. And he went to his bank before the claim was even finished. And went to his bank literally the same day. Love how I'm the bad guy here though.

[robhutch-58]

I literally handled it per eBays instructions. And this is what I got in return 0.

[buyselljack2016]

seller does not "open a return" on eBay.

Anyway, when a buyer goes to their payment source opening a "chargeback',  any eBay return process is closed.

[orangehound]

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@robhutch-58 wrote:

I do support the buyers. I was the one that opened the return,

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I'm confused.  A seller cannot "open a return" ... buyers do that.

The buyer has to:

1. Go to their Purchase History and find the item purchased.
2. Select, "Return this item"
3. Indicate that the item received was "Not as described"

After this, you will be notified by the eBay system and given the option to send a return label.

Without the buyer initiating the return as I described above, the only thing that a seller can do (if the buyer hasn't initiated the return) is to (a) refund the buyer or (b) cancel the sale.  Both of these will send money back to they buyer without requiring a return.

[orangehound]

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@robhutch-58 wrote:

Love how I'm the bad guy here though.

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You're not the bad guy.  We are just trying to understand what steps you and the buyer took, so that we can advise you on what steps you might take.  

All of us are familiar with the eBay processes, and we all fully understand how confusing they are to know, understand, and follow.  There's a steep learning curve.

[robhutch-58]

I understand that and I appreciate it. To my knowledge I did nothing wrong, nor did I ignore or miss any steps such as the return label. I posted to here in hopes that eBay would see and help with clarification. The car is closed so I'm essentially screwed on anything I can't appeal it or anything at this point. And no I didn't technically open the claim but I did accept it. I was nice enough to do that. eBay did advise me that since I put no returns I didn't technically have to accept it. I'm unsure of the steps that would have been taken had I not. But I want to cooperate and make it as quick and easy on everyone is possible. I just wanted him to get his money back and my item back. I wasn't trying to get charged and lose my item. Like I said I kept getting told no further action on my end was needed. I would have gladly provided cheap return shipping so that at least I could potentially get some money back out of my item in this whole ordeal. The buyer even told me in messages the item was of no use to him so he would send it back. So I've waited all this time and no further communication or info from eBay just charging me. If I'm getting charged I just wanted my item.