Fraud

[jujmc.us.29jzih]

My name is Julie. I've been having trouble finding a place to email this.  My daughter's husband was listing an item for a seller thinking that he could make some additional income.  He listed a watch and did receive a payment so he thought this was legitimate.  The person asked him to use friends and family for payment.  My daughter and her husband found out that this person didn't send the watch and they were turned over to collections for $8600.  My daughter is 22 and needless to say does not have money.  Her husband was mortified that he fell for this and wouldn't let her tell anyone so this has just sat in collections since it happened.  I don't know what to do or if there is anything we can do.  If there is someone that we can contact for help on this please let me know.  This is just going to continue to ruin their credit and we certainly don't have the money to pay it.  I understand this is certainly a horrible lesson but this is so wrong.  If anyone knows who I should contact at Ebay, please let me know.

Thanks

[coolections]

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@sam9876wrote:

No money lost = no crime.  Sorry.

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So if I steal your car and when I get caught, I can just pay you back for the car. No crime ? Sorry but that is not how the judicial system works.  Another thing that does not add up: Why would the seller hand over all that cash to the person who supposedly had the watch without first making sure the buyer received it and was happy with it ?

[sin-n-dex]

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@coolectionswrote:

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@sam9876wrote:

No money lost = no crime.  Sorry.

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So if I steal your car and when I get caught, I can just pay you back for the car. No crime ? Sorry but that is not how the judicial system works.  Another thing that does not add up: Why would the seller hand over all that cash to the person who supposedly had the watch without first making sure the buyer received it and was happy with it ?

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Reminds me of a time in a retail store I worked at 20 years ago... caught a shoplifter on $10 of stuff. She says "can I just pay for these things and leave?" The store manager said "no, we're calling the police". All the goods were returned, charges were laid, and her parents were called to come and get her.

But since the police are buried in issues nowadays, I think Internet crime doesn't get that much attention. What was posted here is likely considered to be a civil matter.

Cheers, C.

[sin-n-dex]

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@emerald40wrote:

Schools no longer teach the basics.  They think it is a waste of time because kids can just look it up on the Internet.

Spell check - Kids today cannot spell because they have become so reliant on spell check.  Then when they go for a job and try to fill out an application, it is filled with mistakes.

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Several of my friends have grade school children and have told me that they, as parents, need to spend a full time job teaching their kids things they should be learning in school. This is after the regular child rearing, working a full day to pay a mortgage and put food on the table. It's like, why even send your kids to school if you're having to do it all at home?

Not impressed with the education system, but I'm getting to be on the old side to start a family.

Cheers, C.

[coolections]

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@sin-n-dexwrote:

But since the police are buried in issues nowadays, I think Internet crime doesn't get that much attention. What was posted here is likely considered to be a civil matter.

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It seems to me an $8,600 item would have a little more priority then just being ignored.

[webwanna]

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@sam9876wrote:

No money lost = no crime.  Sorry.

This is a crime.  $8600 was defrauded from Ebay.

@The question is whether the SIL was knowingly in on it.  Is sounds like from the article @krazzykats posted that it might not even matter whether he knew.  The police/FBI are going after the patsy too in these types of crimes.  

[emerald40]

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@coolectionswrote:

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@sin-n-dexwrote:

But since the police are buried in issues nowadays, I think Internet crime doesn't get that much attention. What was posted here is likely considered to be a civil matter.

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It seems to me an $8,600 item would have a little more priority then just being ignored.

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But unlike murder and **bleep**, which are criminal offenses, this is civil.

The police will take a report and then tell you to take them to court.

[emerald40]

Really, ebay, someone uses the f bomb in an auction.

But the word r _ pe gets bleeped.

[sam9876]

A car wasn't stolen.

This is a civil matter that was cured when eBay issued a full refund to the buyer.

[sam9876]

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@webwannawrote:

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@sam9876wrote:

No money lost = no crime.  Sorry.

This is a crime.  $8600 was defrauded from Ebay.

@The question is whether the SIL was knowingly in on it.  Is sounds like from the article @krazzykats posted that it might not even matter whether he knew.  The police/FBI are going after the patsy too in these types of crimes.  

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This is a civil matter.  The eBay seller simply owes a debt to eBay.

[missjen831]

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@sin-n-dexwrote:

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@city*satinswrote:

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@sandmansaleswrote:

So your SIL listed an item he did not have in his possession. Then sold said item and turned around and gave a perfect stranger almost 9 grand?

I'm not seeing the scam. What am I missing.

____________________________________________

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1. Scam #1 is that a buyer paid over $8K for a watch that was never received. Luckily, the buyer was protected by eBay and Paypal policies.

2. Scam #2 is that some unknown party committed to ship an item, accepted $$ for doing so, and then did not do so.

3. Scam #3 is that the party whose Paypal account accepted the  buyer's payment.  and who then turned a portion of those funds over to someone else (the unknown party in Scam #2), did not attempt to repay even a portion of those funds to the party who assumed the $ loss and reimbursed the buyer or subsequently to the collection agency who attempted to recover the loss on that party's behalf.

Similarly, despite knowing that criminal fraud had occurred, no report was made to law enforcement.

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I think we all got trolled here... OP not answering any more questions, and too much of this makes no sense. Even if someone were desperate for money (and I know some in my life time), the rules governing the use of Paypal and eBay prevent this level of stupidity.

Cheers, C.

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The OP has come back and answered questions. This is not a troll post, some of you need to familiarize yourself with the scam that occurred. It is entirely INCORRECT that the laws governing eBay and PayPal prevent this level of stupidity, again familiarize yourself with the scam. It’s clear as day what happened here. 

[missjen831]

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@coolectionswrote:

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@sam9876wrote:

"I would like to know why the SIL is not in jail for fraud. He sold a Rolex watch to a buyer collected the cash and never sent the item. You would think the buyer would have filed a police report."

The buyer has all their money back, so there was no crime.

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Just because the buyer got their money back does not make it legal to fraud a buyer. I would have called the police a filed charges against the seller.

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What mAkes you think the buyer is aware of what actually happened here between the their seller and the scammer? 

[sin-n-dex]

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@missjen831wrote:

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The OP has come back and answered questions. This is not a troll post, some of you need to familiarize yourself with the scam that occurred. It is entirely INCORRECT that the laws governing eBay and PayPal prevent this level of stupidity, again familiarize yourself with the scam. It’s clear as day what happened here. 

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I understand the scam, and it does happen often (there's ads on lamp posts in my neighbourhood looking for people to "work at home selling goods", etc).

What I was suggesting by saying the rules would prevent this... I see roadblocks that would prevent a new or inexperienced seller from doing this.

1. eBay selling limits (total value per month). Some accounts are only allowed to list $100. I suppose if you listed it at an auction it could exceed that, but no one has covered that in what I read here.

2. Paypal's 21 day hold on the funds. Seller victim should not been able to release the funds to the scammer unless 21 days had passed or proof of delivery.

Other issues I see involve common sense... but I get that's not something everyone has when they're young.

Cheers, C.

[sam9876]

An established seller wouldn't have any limits or holds.

[coolections]

@missjen831The buyer does not need to know what happened. They buyer purchased an expensive item and had to get paypal to step in because he was a victim of a crime. Paid big $$ and did not receive his item.

[coolections]

@sam9876

Internet fraud is more than a civil matter. In fact it is highly punishable in the court of law.