E-Checks

[lordevor_0]

A verified eBay user has offered to pay with an E-Check.  Is this legal?  He does not have a credit/debit card and closed his PayPal account to to issues with them.  He said the purchase will go thru eBay after the E-Check clears my bank account.    The item is $1000 so its not a smaller purchase.  Please offer me advise.

[lordevor_0]

THANK YOU TO ALL THE KIND PEOPLE WHO ANSWERED MY PLEA FOR HELP.  I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU AND THE TIME YOU TOOK TO HELP ME.  I  THOUGHT IT WAS A SCAM BUT ECHECKS ARE ARE REAL THING.  NO MORE ECHECK QUESTIONS FOR ME!  THANKS AGAIN!!!

[mam98031]

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@asset_liquidators wrote:

It's a scam. ONLY take cash at time of pick up for local pick up items.

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@asset_liquidators 

Not a scam.  The buyer can't pay with an Echeck on Ebay.

[asset_liquidators]

Huh? If they can't pay with an echeck but are telling the seller they are going to pay with echeck through ebay, then how do you figure that is NOT a scam? They are going to send them fake notices that they were paid by echeck. Clearly a scam. 

[lordevor_0]

Wow!  Thank you so much for the much needed info.  I can't wait to tell this scammer to go pound sand.!    They should pull his account, for sure!  

[lacemaker3]

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@mam98031 wrote:

@lacemaker3 

I respect the request for documentation, but just thinking on it logically, MP is simply not set up to handle an Echeck payment.  The process itself that is how MP works simply doesn't allow for such a payment.  That is simply the way I look at it.  Others may see it differently. 

But if you feel it can process through MP, how would that work?  

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I did not try to apply logic, because eBay decisions are not necessarily taken for reasons of logic.

I don't see any logical difference between accepting echecks when PayPal was processing the payments, and accepting them with managed payments. I don't see why MP "process" would be materially or logically any different than PayPal's "process" was for processing payments. They are both doing the same thing.

eBay forced sellers to wait days or weeks for an echeck to clear or bounce with PayPal, when sellers on other websites were allowed to block them, so why should eBay change the policy for managed payments? 

That's a rhetorical question, I don't expect (or want) to get an explanation, and I'm not arguing with the answer that devon@ebay provided either. As always, there's no point in debating an eBay policy. It is what it is. It just helps to understand what the policy is.

[lacemaker3]

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devon@ebay wrote:

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@lacemaker3 wrote:

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devon@ebay wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

I do not have documentation, but an echeck does not fit within how MP will process a payment.  MP just isn't set up in a way to be able to accommodate an echeck.

velvet@ebay 

devon@ebay 

elizabeth@ebay 

Since Paypal allows for an echeck to be issued in their option of payment types, does Managed payments allow echeck payments through Paypal?  

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Hey @mam98031! SInce Managed Payments has been implemented, an eCheck is not a form of immediate payment, it is not an acceptable payment method for this option. Payment must be made using your PayPal balance, Instant Transfer or a confirmed credit card.

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Thanks for the info, devon@ebay.

Is this documented anywhere, that only immediate payments are accepted for MP? I wasn't able to find anything about this when I looked.

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@lacemaker3 For buy it now (fixed price listings) this would be where immediate payment is required and that can been seen here in our help pages. This also applies to auction style listings with a buy it now option. 

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Thanks again, devon@ebay.

Does that mean that an auction winner could use an echeck to fund a PayPal payment when paying for their auction, because it does not require immediate payment?

If that's correct, I do recall that when payments were processed by PayPal, the policy was the same then. The only time that buyers were blocked from paying with an echeck was if the listing had immediate payment required.

[mam98031]

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@asset_liquidators wrote:

Huh? If they can't pay with an echeck but are telling the seller they are going to pay with echeck through ebay, then how do you figure that is NOT a scam? They are going to send them fake notices that they were paid by echeck. Clearly a scam. 

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Because the seller should know that they can't.  Managed Payments' process on how they deal with payments simply doesn't allow for Echecks.  But you do have a point.  If a seller has not considered that MP just isn't set up to deal with them I suppose it could be a scam.  Sorry I should have thought about that more.

[mam98031]

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@lacemaker3 wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

@lacemaker3 

I respect the request for documentation, but just thinking on it logically, MP is simply not set up to handle an Echeck payment.  The process itself that is how MP works simply doesn't allow for such a payment.  That is simply the way I look at it.  Others may see it differently. 

But if you feel it can process through MP, how would that work?  

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I did not try to apply logic, because eBay decisions are not necessarily taken for reasons of logic.

I don't see any logical difference between accepting echecks when PayPal was processing the payments, and accepting them with managed payments. I don't see why MP "process" would be materially or logically any different than PayPal's "process" was for processing payments. They are both doing the same thing.

eBay forced sellers to wait days or weeks for an echeck to clear or bounce with PayPal, when sellers on other websites were allowed to block them, so why should eBay change the policy for managed payments? 

That's a rhetorical question, I don't expect (or want) to get an explanation, and I'm not arguing with the answer that devon@ebay provided either. As always, there's no point in debating an eBay policy. It is what it is. It just helps to understand what the policy is.

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In Paypal they had a specific process.  They showed them as pending funds which can take 5-7 days to clear.  Or something like that. 

MP does not function that way.  In the rules for MP, when a buyer submits the payment, Ebay has the payment and the seller is good to ship.  But if it is an Echeck, Ebay does NOT have the money and the seller is NOT OK to ship.  

[a_c_green]

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@pburn wrote:

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@itsjustasprain wrote:

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@pburn wrote:
Um, not sure that's quite accurate. Unless they're counterfeit or otherwise fraudulent (which is a whole different issue), legitimate cashier's checks don't bounce. 

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I assume we are talking about counterfeit checks and counterfeit money orders here - yes. Fake cashiers checks have been around for many years. That is an old scam - not a new one.

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I'm not sure how you came up with that conclusion. That's not an assumption I made, nor do I think the member to whom I was replying was referring to counterfeits cashier's checks. There have been no posts referencing "counterfeit" anything, including the post to which I was replying.

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Hi! I assume that's my reply you are referring to, back in Message 24 (here), and yes, I was indeed talking about counterfeit Cashier's Checks and Money Orders, not real ones.

Certainly a real Cashier's Check is paid for with clear funds at the time it's issued, and your local bank will clear it pretty much immediately as a courtesy on that basis. A scammer can present a fake one which could be honored up front, but will bounce later on when presented to the bank that, as I said previously, supposedly issued it (but actually did not, since it's a fake). Sorry if I did not make that clear.

These fake checks have been the basis for many scams over the years, especially the ones where you're supposed to be acting as a local representative of an offshore company, and you're supposed to deposit checks mailed to you from the company's customers, then turn around and send your own check to the offshore outfit. Your check will clear; the ones you deposited will not, but you won't learn this until after the scam company has cashed your check.

Fake Money Orders can be a risk too, but US Postal Service money orders in particular can be validated at any post office, and cashed on the spot for full face value if the post office has enough cash on hand to do that. If they don't have enough money, they can at least verify that the money order is good, and you can then deposit it in your checking account.

[devon@ebay]

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@lacemaker3 wrote:

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devon@ebay wrote:

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@lacemaker3 wrote:

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devon@ebay wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

I do not have documentation, but an echeck does not fit within how MP will process a payment.  MP just isn't set up in a way to be able to accommodate an echeck.

velvet@ebay 

devon@ebay 

elizabeth@ebay 

Since Paypal allows for an echeck to be issued in their option of payment types, does Managed payments allow echeck payments through Paypal?  

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Hey @mam98031! SInce Managed Payments has been implemented, an eCheck is not a form of immediate payment, it is not an acceptable payment method for this option. Payment must be made using your PayPal balance, Instant Transfer or a confirmed credit card.

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Thanks for the info, devon@ebay.

Is this documented anywhere, that only immediate payments are accepted for MP? I wasn't able to find anything about this when I looked.

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@lacemaker3 For buy it now (fixed price listings) this would be where immediate payment is required and that can been seen here in our help pages. This also applies to auction style listings with a buy it now option. 

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Thanks again, devon@ebay.

Does that mean that an auction winner could use an echeck to fund a PayPal payment when paying for their auction, because it does not require immediate payment?

If that's correct, I do recall that when payments were processed by PayPal, the policy was the same then. The only time that buyers were blocked from paying with an echeck was if the listing had immediate payment required.

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@lacemaker3 With auction listings it would still not be available to pay via e-check due to it can take 3-5 days for an eCheck to clear. Buyers who win auctions have 4 calendar days to pay for the purchase which is why immediate payment is not required for auctions. 

[simply-the-best-for-you]

devon@ebay 

The last time I asked this question in another thread, I was told that you guys don't know.  So, just double checking here, since you're saying something different than I was told a few months ago by eBay (I think it was Velvet) in another thread.  

Since MP allows PP as a form of payment & PP allows e-checks, doesn't that mean that a buyer can still pay by e-check VIA Paypal?   Color me still confused, as I was thinking along the same lines as @lacemaker3  & when I explicitly asked this question, quite recently, I was told you guys don't know b/c it's a PP offering & you don't know what PP offers.  

ETA:  I realize in this case the buyer says they don't have PP. 

[devon@ebay]

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@simply-the-best-for-you wrote:

devon@ebay 

The last time I asked this question in another thread, I was told that you guys don't know.  So, just double checking here, since you're saying something different than I was told a few months ago by eBay (I think it was Velvet) in another thread.  

Since MP allows PP as a form of payment & PP allows e-checks, doesn't that mean that a buyer can still pay by e-check VIA Paypal?   Color me still confused, as I was thinking along the same lines as @lacemaker3  & when I explicitly asked this question, quite recently, I was told you guys don't know b/c it's a PP offering & you don't know what PP offers.  

ETA:  I realize in this case the buyer says they don't have PP. 

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@simply-the-best-for-you  Since we have implemented Managed Payments we are not certain on how PayPal handles e-checks for checkouts. We offer PayPal as a payment method and I would say it is best to reach out to PayPal to see if they offer e-check through themselves when going to checkout. 

[simply-the-best-for-you]

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devon@ebay wrote:

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@simply-the-best-for-you wrote:

devon@ebay 

The last time I asked this question in another thread, I was told that you guys don't know.  So, just double checking here, since you're saying something different than I was told a few months ago by eBay (I think it was Velvet) in another thread.  

Since MP allows PP as a form of payment & PP allows e-checks, doesn't that mean that a buyer can still pay by e-check VIA Paypal?   Color me still confused, as I was thinking along the same lines as @lacemaker3  & when I explicitly asked this question, quite recently, I was told you guys don't know b/c it's a PP offering & you don't know what PP offers.  

ETA:  I realize in this case the buyer says they don't have PP. 

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@simply-the-best-for-you  Since we have implemented Managed Payments we are not certain on how PayPal handles e-checks for checkouts. We offer PayPal as a payment method and I would say it is best to reach out to PayPal to see if they offer e-check through themselves when going to checkout. 

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Thank you.  That matches what we were told a few months ago.  So, in other words, it sounds to me like it MAY still be possible for a buyer to pay with e-check, if they are paying via PP & PP still allows it.  

[simply-the-best-for-you]

So @lacemaker3  curious, do you interpret posts 57 & 58 as I do?  That we're back at square one, not knowing if it can be done or not. 

[lacemaker3]

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@simply-the-best-for-you wrote:

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devon@ebay wrote:

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@simply-the-best-for-you wrote:

devon@ebay 

The last time I asked this question in another thread, I was told that you guys don't know.  So, just double checking here, since you're saying something different than I was told a few months ago by eBay (I think it was Velvet) in another thread.  

Since MP allows PP as a form of payment & PP allows e-checks, doesn't that mean that a buyer can still pay by e-check VIA Paypal?   Color me still confused, as I was thinking along the same lines as @lacemaker3  & when I explicitly asked this question, quite recently, I was told you guys don't know b/c it's a PP offering & you don't know what PP offers.  

ETA:  I realize in this case the buyer says they don't have PP. 

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@simply-the-best-for-you  Since we have implemented Managed Payments we are not certain on how PayPal handles e-checks for checkouts. We offer PayPal as a payment method and I would say it is best to reach out to PayPal to see if they offer e-check through themselves when going to checkout. 

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Thank you.  That matches what we were told a few months ago.  So, in other words, it sounds to me like it MAY still be possible for a buyer to pay with e-check, if they are paying via PP & PP still allows it.  

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@simply-the-best-for-you, I agree.

Anyone can read the PayPal settings and help pages, which clearly show that they allow echeck payments. PayPal allows sellers to block echecks, except for eBay transactions. devon@ebay, I will assume that you did not want (or are not allowed) to speak about PayPal policies, which makes sense.

With managed payments, PayPal payments are now made to eBay itself rather than to the individual sellers. If PayPal is enforcing their policy as stated, then eBay would not be allowed to block echeck payments. I'm sure that eBay could renegotiate that, if they wished to, but it doesn't sound like they have thought about it.

Based on what Devon said, the available evidence would suggest that buyers may be able to pay for auctions with an echeck. However they may run into difficulty, if the check does not clear within the 4-day interval after which sellers can cancel the transaction because of non-payment. If the seller does not use the automatic cancellation, and does not cancel the transaction himself.

It also seems likely that buyers would be able to pay with an echeck for any listing which does not require immediate payment. The payment would not be considered complete until the echeck clears. The ebay policy still says that this is the seller's choice, although there is a lot of evidence that suggests that eBay may require immediate payment even if the seller does not choose to do so.