eBay

coffeebean832 · ‎12-26-2020

Tagging in @bigdeals.etc as you're a regular poster here that I think would be most likely to have dealt with this before.

Here's the timeline-

12/5 buyer requested a return. Remorse return, free returns listing, return shipping label provided on 12/5.
12/10 buyer shipped.
12/25 this return now appears in my Tasks list on the SH Overview page as "respond to return request" and the return status page says, "The item should already have been delivered. Please inspect the item carefully upon receipt and issue a refund to the buyer by Dec 30. "
The last tracking scan was 12/10 at the buyer's local sort facility.
12/21 I opened a where's my package case with USPS- they closed it on 12/22 with no communication whatsoever.
Finally, a new tracking scan appeared around 10:00 last night 12/25 in my state- however that facility is backed up so I'm not confident the package will be delivered by the 12/30 deadline eBay is showing. I have some outbound packages sitting at that facility for 10-12 days now.

I'd prefer to wait for the package to make sure there are no issues before refunding. If I wait for the package to arrive, but it's not delivered by 12/30, what can happen?

If the buyer escalates on 12/31 will eBay force the refund and give me an unresolved defect?
If the buyer escalates on 12/31 will eBay extend the time I have to refund since tracking shows recent movement and the package wasn't delivered yet?
Will eBay force the refund on 12/31 and give me a defect without even requiring the buyer to escalate?

I provided the return label so I know that ultimately I'm responsible for refunding if the package is lost- but the package isn't lost. It is moving and is finally in my state with a recent tracking scan. It's just delayed along with every other package right now, and I haven't seen eBay address returns in the announcements- just INRs.

Thanks to anybody who can provide some specifics on this.

1tuna · ‎12-26-2020

I have had a few return requests time out after the label was printed. They were all closed due to inaction. basically the buyer failed to send back the item.I am unsure how you will be treated on a return that does show activity.

wishing you the best outcome for this

Germantown proud Germantown strong
up the whiskey hickon
moving right along
19144

donsdetour · ‎12-26-2020

"If the buyer escalates on 12/31 will eBay force the refund and give me an unresolved defect?"

That is the most likely outcome of this situation.

If it is a cheep item go ahead and refund.

Ebay is going to sooner or later.

a_c_green · ‎12-26-2020

@coffeebean832 wrote:
Thanks to anybody who can provide some specifics on this.

Without an actual Delivered scan, it's not delivered. That would be the trigger for a forced refund; without it, you'd don't have it back (yet).

Actually, I would bet that you will receive it by the 30th or earlier, as you now have a new scan showing activity within your state. The backlog is draining now, and I am seeing activity on a number of my own shipments that had been showing delays for the past 7-10 days.

nuclearomen · ‎12-26-2020

call ebay and explain the package return is still in transit, before doing that file a search inquire with USPS (you said you already did, but you need escalate the case, do it the same way, but this time when ask you for the tracking at start of the submission it will say "search case already created, would like to escalate" (not exact words), select yes, no need to refill everything out, you'll get a confirmation email with a new search inquire #. What this does is brings the search to high authorities within USPS, post master at the post office the case went to before can't just close it without actually doing search on the parcel. Ebay (and your customer) will see a case was opened on the ebay tracking, call ebay and explain - ask for extension, they should give another 10 days par to their new shipping for seller protection for the package to take a new scan through transit.

The great truth is there isn't one
And it only gets worse since that conclusion...
...There is something about the rigid posture of a proper, authentic blind
As if extended arms reached to pass his blindness onto others.

ceyvov_0 · ‎12-26-2020

LOL I bet you don't know what to do now.

Look at all the variety of responses, all from do nothing to issue a refund immediately and everything in between.

You gotta love it.

What would I do?
I would wait, and if the package hasn't arrived by the 30th around 10p I would check the mailbox one last time, also I would check the case to see if tracking shows delivery... If the answer to both is no then I would let the case time out and see what ebay does... To my understanding the case would timeout due to inactivity and the hold on your payment would be released, the buyer is out of luck IF you do not get your package back but specifically if the case doesn't state tracking delivery/delivered.

It's all computerized switches, off and on (or 0 and 1 or true and false)...

Depending which of anything in particular is true or false, that is how the case will be decided.

Tracking scan does not show delivery by midnight of the 30th?
Closed out due to inactivity.

Otherwise if tracking does show delivered, you should issue a REFUND.

That would be my course of action.

nuclearomen · ‎12-26-2020

@ceyvov_0 wrote:
LOL I bet you don't know what to do now.
Look at all the variety of responses, all from do nothing to issue a refund immediately and everything in between.
You gotta love it.

What would I do?
I would wait, and if the package hasn't arrived by the 30th around 10p I would check the mailbox one last time, also I would check the case to see if tracking shows delivery... If the answer to both is no then I would let the case time out and see what ebay does... To my understanding the case would timeout due to inactivity and the hold on your payment would be released, the buyer is out of luck IF you do not get your package back but specifically if the case doesn't state tracking delivery/delivered.
It's all computerized switches, off and on (or 0 and 1 or true and false)...
Depending which of anything in particular is true or false, that is how the case will be decided.
Tracking scan does not show delivery by midnight of the 30th?
Closed out due to inactivity.
Otherwise if tracking does show delivered, you should issue a REFUND.

That would be my course of action.

to not talk to ebay, especially right now with all this going on would be bad move. Ebay understands the issue, but they want communication, do nothing, and ebay will not hesitate to take buyers side and issue refund without you. That's IMO, course, and no answer is perfect here, but I do believe just doing nothing is the worst thing to do

The great truth is there isn't one
And it only gets worse since that conclusion...
...There is something about the rigid posture of a proper, authentic blind
As if extended arms reached to pass his blindness onto others.

coffeebean832 · ‎12-26-2020

@1tuna wrote "wishing you the best outcome for this"-

Thank you.

@donsdetour wrote "If it is a cheep item go ahead and refund."-

It's inexpensive (under $20) so I'll probably end up refunding whether it's delivered by the 30th or not. The buyer was honest with their reason for return- I'm confident I'll get the same item back, although I won't know whether or not they removed the packaging (making it unsellable) until it's returned. A small dollar amount isn't worth a huge time suck and hassle dealing with potential appeals, etc.

@a_c_green wrote "Actually, I would bet that you will receive it by the 30th or earlier, as you now have a new scan showing activity within your state. The backlog is draining now"-

I think there's a decent chance that it will make it by the 30th. That sort facility is still behind on packages they've had for 2 weeks now with no movement- but I have noticed that packages inbound to the state are processed quicker than outbound packages.

@nuclearomen wrote "call ebay and explain the package return is still in transit, before doing that file a search inquire with USPS (you said you already did, but you need escalate the case"-

For a larger dollar amount I would consider calling eBay on the 30th and asking for an extension if needed. For $20 it's not worth my time and dealing with CS that has no clue what they're talking about.

I've escalated USPS cases before- but typically, if they close the original case without communication, I'll wait a few days to see if the package starts moving before going through the trouble. In this instance the package did start moving a few days later.

To be honest- I don't know that opening cases does any good. It used to pre-Covid, but right now the facilities are far too backed up to go searching when an inquiry comes through. I'll make an educated guess and say maybe it does some good if one facility sees an unusually high percentage of cases. It won't do anything for that specific package- but in bulk the numbers will make someone higher up pay attention. The reason I open cases is mainly to get the record on tracking so buyers can see I'm not sitting on my hands and that I care about their package being delivered in a timely manner. Opening cases and proactively communicating with buyers about delays has helped keep the INR numbers down in a big way this month.

@ceyvov_0 wrote "I would let the case time out and see what ebay does... To my understanding the case would timeout due to inactivity and the hold on your payment would be released, the buyer is out of luck"-

I have to disagree that the buyer is out of luck in that case. Granted- tracking doesn't show delivery in your scenario and the bots might automatically close it- however all the buyer has to do is appeal and they would win because I'm the one responsible for the return shipping label.

I'm honest and I would refund the buyer even if the case auto-closed on them- but the buyer doesn't know that. This is their first purchase from me. I could easily see them jumping to appeal and that's not worth the risk since this isn't a high value transaction.

I think the main question is- would the case automatically close or would it automatically get an extension based on tracking movement (like what's happening with INRs). Unless somebody can say for certain that eBay will automatically extend it (without contacting CS) based on their recent experience- or unless a blue chimes in saying that's the case- then I'm not going to test it on this one.

Revised to make quotes blue and break up the wall of text.

natoman777 · ‎12-26-2020

Contact eBay for a callback. They will work it out for you. Do NOT give them a refund without getting the item. By the way, I had around 10 items that had no tracking updated on the 10th as well. Some have finally been updated but others have not.

If you don't call it will be more difficult to get it resolved after the case closes.

sin-n-dex · ‎12-26-2020

@donsdetour wrote:
"If the buyer escalates on 12/31 will eBay force the refund and give me an unresolved defect?"

That is the most likely outcome of this situation.
If it is a cheep item go ahead and refund.
Ebay is going to sooner or later.

I've done that before (refunded before receiving). It was an inexpensive not likely scamable type of item, and when tracking shows delivered I'm going to have to refund no matter what's in that package.

I'd refund before the deadline to ensure I don't get the defect.

C.

onlinecentral · ‎12-26-2020

I looked for but could not find a portion of a Weekly Chat with eBay Staff.
To paraphrase what a blue said about: What Happens When a Return is Lost in Transit.
If the seller paid for the return label, the buyer gets a refund.
If the buyer paid for the return label, the seller gets a refund.
You offered Free Returns and paid for the label.
The automatic closing of a return 2 days after a Delivered scan is not applicable for a lost package.
You don't have a leg to stand on for keeping the original payment.
You haven't stated your intention to withhold 50% of the refund or get $6.00 return postage credit.

We would be interested to find out your outcome if you let this case time out or else ask eBay to step in.
I closed a similar case on Tuesday at the 11:00 o'clock hour on the last day.
I didn't see a compelling reason to risk getting a Cases Not Closed By Seller strike.
The package arrived today.

Here is a discussion that was ruled in the seller's favor.
Return has not arrived after two weeks. 12-12-2020
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Shipping-Returns/Return-has-not-arrived-after-two-weeks/m-p/31422978/

Here is a discussion that was ruled in the seller's favor, then Reversed.
This Seller Just Got Screwed Too 12-18-2020
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/This-Seller-Just-Got-Screwed-Too/m-p/31442718/

lac358232 · ‎12-26-2020

The 12/30 date is the

10 business days to mail the label +

5 business additional days to check for scans +

Christmas +

2 business days to refund upon delivery/assumed delivery.

Nothing will happen after that, unless the buyer contacts eBay within 10 business days (14 or more days), see policy, of the assumed delivery to force a refund.

bigdeals.etc · ‎12-27-2020

Sorry I'm late to the game. It's Christmas weekend for goodness sakes! As Bob Cratchit said "I was making rather merry yesterday, sir." Anyway, I only read a few of the replies earlier on. Not sure if I remember any of them tho, so sorry if I repeat what was already said. Here we go.

I've been thru many of these, so I can tell you what has happened to me. I can't say they've all been necessarily according to policy tho... but when has ebay been consistent with following their own policies? Majority of them have been because the buyer simply never sent it back, other times they got delayed or "returned to sender (which in a return, it's the buyer)".

I've written many posts about the "The item should already have been delivered. Please inspect the item carefully upon receipt and issue a refund to the buyer by Dec 30." scare tactic that ebay sends. It's a crock and a lame attempt to try and scare a seller into refunding the buyer prematurely. How do they even come up with that 12/30 date? It's not 2 days after the item was delivered... because it didn't arrive yet! I never looked into it that deeply if there is a formula that ebay uses for this random deadline, but I will now the next time I get one of these. As long as there is no green circle and check mark for "Refund" (see below), you shouldn't be forced to refund anything.

Bottom line is that ebay can't force you to refund anything until you have the item back... period (on a return that you've already accepted and are waiting for the item). I mean they can, but I believe that's against their policy and a CS rep blunder. This scare tactic also lies to you in your Manage Returns page and says the item was delivered, when in fact it hasn't yet. Very shady. Don't let them fool you... I've had many many returns that received this message/tactic from ebay. I've never prematurely agreed to refund the buyer and those returns just remain open until either the item finally arrives, or it times out and closes due to inactivity. Honestly I forgot how long it takes to time out... ebay keeps changing their time windows it's hard to keep up.

I can't even remember if there is an option for the buyer to escalate after 12/30 (and the package hasn't arrived). I've never had a buyer escalate on me like this which is why I'm thinking they can't. But in the event that they do, there's no way ebay will rule in buyer favor. Worst case it'll be buyer refund, no one at fault... and ebay pays you both out. I've only had two outcomes ever happen in all of these type of refunds I've had. 1) Item finally arrives days to weeks after that 12/30 cutoff time. A check mark and a green circle appears for "refund" and ebay then says I'm obligated to refund. It MIGHT be immediate... meaning the buyer can probably escalate (and you'll lose) 1 minute after that refund circle turns green. That whole "2 days to refund" thing goes out the window, or 2) Item never arrives and return closes itself out eventually. Sometimes the returns close out days after, sometimes weeks.

If ever one of these forces you to refund prematurely, then the return was closed incorrectly and you should be able to appeal. I don't know what will happen if the buyer escalates... my guess is the rep will be sympathetic and extend the time. Again, if they force refund... appeal it. After that 12/30 passes, if no party does anything, ebay will not act on buyer's behalf.

On that related note though, I've often had ebay act on MY behalf in some returns. In standard returns, right when my 2 days to return are up, ebay ends up stepping in and refunds the buyer (pulls funds from me) on my behalf. I don't get a defect but a reminder to please refund within 2 days. Usually this happens when I have way too many messages and am falling behind. So it's good that ebay steps in for me before the buyer can escalate, but bad in some special situations if I find out the returned item is damaged or replaced with a rock.

coffeebean832 · ‎12-29-2020

@lac358232 wrote:
The 12/30 date is the
10 business days to mail the label +
5 business additional days to check for scans +
Christmas +
2 business days to refund upon delivery/assumed delivery.

Nothing will happen after that, unless the buyer contacts eBay within 10 business days (14 or more days), see policy, of the assumed delivery to force a refund.

@lac358232- The screenshot you provided mentions a delivery attempt. That hasn't happened in my case. There are no new tracking scans and it's highly unlikely the package will arrive by tomorrow.

Are you saying the buyer can escalate the day after 12/30 and force the refund even though the package is still in transit?

coffeebean832 · ‎12-29-2020

@bigdeals.etc wrote:
How do they even come up with that 12/30 date? It's not 2 days after the item was delivered... because it didn't arrive yet! I never looked into it that deeply if there is a formula that ebay uses for this random deadline, but I will now the next time I get one of these. As long as there is no green circle and check mark for "Refund" (see below), you shouldn't be forced to refund anything.

Bottom line is that ebay can't force you to refund anything until you have the item back... period (on a return that you've already accepted and are waiting for the item). I mean they can, but I believe that's against their policy and a CS rep blunder. This scare tactic also lies to you in your Manage Returns page and says the item was delivered, when in fact it hasn't yet. Very shady. Don't let them fool you... I've had many many returns that received this message/tactic from ebay.

You mean like this?

The timeline of how they come up with the date is in the post above yours @bigdeals.etc.