Chargeback

[esg-enterprises]

So I had my biggest loss ever this week on ebay made possible by MP. 

A buyer purchased an item from me in mid January. He never onced asked to return or stated a problem with the item. In Late April he opens a chargeback for INAD, totally fictitious.

I was assured by anchor store CSR's I would be fine appealing the case because I was protected by seller protection and the buyer was obviously scamming.

Yesterday I get an email I lost the case and they were taking $1500 from my bank account.

I have called 3 times and spoken to 7 CSR's, mostly in MP, each telling me I have no protection because I could have sent the buyer a different item. Also, he does not have to return my item and ebay is keeping their fees.

I asked 20 years with ebay paying hundreds of thousands in fees and you cant do a thing for me, when PP would have at least made them return the item.  I was told by one MP CSR that ebay can't match what PP provided because PP is a unique situation and actually admitted moving forward I will likely lose every chargeback someone makes. They refused to give any details on the decision or why they made it just that each case is unique.   

Needless to say very demoralizing and I will have to really look to speed up my movement away from ebay. In 20 + years with PP I had 3, maybe 4 disputes which PP closed and in one case made the buyer return my item.  In 8 months in MP I have had 2, one because ebay never refunded the buyer on a cancellation the buyer requested and I refunded!  

Now out  1500 and the money I had in the item. Sux

[reallyhardtofind]

Thank you, I have collected and brought and sold clocks all my life. We've sold items like this for many years with no problem. Recently we were burned on lower end items. We lost on a NAD and a not recognized. A total of about $300. But if I get really burned I'm outta here trust me. Its more about how we were burned on ebay. They just don't have your back and are so quick to flick you off. 

[tdumonde2014]

There was never a requirement that the item be returned in an INAD Chargeback, PayPal had no authority to require that. PayPal never covered INAD Chargebacks and even stated this in the Chargeback TOS.

[muddducksinks]

I won two INAD/SNAD chargebacks so far. Check out my post.

 https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/This-is-how-sellers-dispute-and-win-Item-not-as-described/m-p/...

[Anonymous]

I don't understand why you can't file a lawsuit against the buyer.    It must have something to do with ebay being responsible for managed payments, so you'd have to sue them.   It should be obvious in any court in this country that the buyer is scamming.   If the item wasn't as described, they'd of filed a dispute within the first week.   Courts would know this, but are you not able to sue the buyer because of managed payments?

[esg-enterprises]

I don't like to speak in absolutes, but from my experience,  you are 100% wrong.

I had a PP dispute that was found in favor of buyer about 5 years ago and they had to return the item at their cost and the refund was made after they showed tracking delivered to me.

My wife lost a dispute a lady opened after like 2 months and the women had

to return the item first, both were item not as described. 

In fact ebay CSR's acknowledged to me PP did this but for some reason ebay says they cannot. 

[rosered1921]

There is a difference between a PP dispute and a chargeback.  In a chargeback  the buyer receives the money from their credit/debit card, in a PP dispute the buyer receives the money from PP.   A chargeback doesn't require PP, Ebay, or any other company's permission to remove the money.  Just as they deposit the money into the account, they have the power and permission to remove the money.  It's part of accepting credit cards.  The decision in a chargeback is 100% the decision of the funding source, and they are out to protect their customer.  Ebay , PP, or any other business doesn't have the power to demand the return of anything, I'm afraid.  A bank will ask their customer to return or make the item available for the seller, but they can't require it.  

[downunder-61]

Thank you..........

Exactly what I was getting at in my earlier post, some people are calling everything a "chargeback'' on this thread.

[pikabo-icu]

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@downunder-61 wrote:

Thank you..........

Exactly what I was getting at in my earlier post, some people are calling everything a "chargeback'' on this thread.

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I think people are comparing how a chargeback is now handled under MP rather than how PP handled a chargeback. 

With PP you could file a case with them but a CC holder could also file a CC chargeback, PP would either cover you or fight for you- It seems now eBay isn't putting up much of a fight. 

That's where I believe the comparison is being made. 

[inhawaii]

Why are you blaming managed payments?  I was under the impression that paypal (back then) and managed payments (now) have nothing to do with a chargeback.  It's all in the hands of your customer's credit card company.  Is this not correct?

[doc-holmes]

So, if a buyer made a credit card chargeback, PayPal woukd either refuse to grant it, or would foot the bill? That really doesn't sound right. 

[downunder-61]

I remember Paypal would let you input more evidence as proof of a sellers appeal even with a CB, eBay it seems just washes their hands of it - of course if a buyer claims 'unauthorised activity' not sure how a seller could refute that even with PP, as it is he said/she said.

[m60driver]

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@inhawaii wrote:

Why are you blaming managed payments?  I was under the impression that paypal (back then) and managed payments (now) have nothing to do with a chargeback.  It's all in the hands of your customer's credit card company.  Is this not correct?

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Chargebacks are, or at least were when I had my brick & mortar store,  run through Merchant Services, a consortium run by the major banks.  The banks have a sweet deal in taking a small amount of money from every CC transaction.   And that adds up to billions, enough to give away cash and travel to card users.  Until the country begins to regulate these too-big-to-fail banks they will continue to allow their customers to get away with theft.  It also helps the banks that your money you deposit in their banks is able to be lent out nearly 10 fold (fractional banking) and part of that goes to cover credit card debt which usually fetches well over 20% in interest while they pay you about 1%.  Ebay may be a large corporation, but they are still small potato's relative to the major banks and we as sellers are simply collateral damage.  Never sell on Ebay anything you can't afford to lose is the one and only take away.

[pikabo-icu]

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@inhawaii wrote:

Why are you blaming managed payments?  I was under the impression that paypal (back then) and managed payments (now) have nothing to do with a chargeback.  It's all in the hands of your customer's credit card company.  Is this not correct?

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I'm not blaming MP I am saying it seems like PP fought for the sellers when a chargeback happened- 

With all these recent chargeback cases since switching to MP it doesn't seem like eBay or Adyen or whomever is fighting very hard as many of these CB's are being lost by sellers. At least that's how it's looking in the recent posts. 

[pikabo-icu]

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@doc-holmes wrote:

So, if a buyer made a credit card chargeback, PayPal woukd either refuse to grant it, or would foot the bill? That really doesn't sound right. 

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They allowed sellers to present a decent case and went to bat for us.

I don't know if they covered a CB loss but I don't recall seeing this number of CB losses until recently.

I believe PP either fought harder or yes, at times covered them if the seller could prove they sent the item and it was as described. It was part of their protection I believe- 

There has to be some reason for this increase in chargebacks- I don't know what it is but it seems to be increasing. 

[katzrul15]

@esg-enterprises 

In 2021, we have had 4 total chargebacks. 

We have not prevailed on any - however, courtesy refunds to the buyer occurred on 2.  We then kept our monies.  Buyer kept our items+ courtesy refund. 

2 Buyers filed stating did not recognize charges.  Both Buyers withdrew after discussion(s) occurred.

None of these are as a result (direct) of MP. 

Fraud on this site is up.  Buyers are savy on "free" items. 

Personally believe there is an e-bay cultural shift regarding fraud.

Do not believe this is tied to MP.