Buyer Using Freight Forwarder Filed a SNAD

[lovethehype]

Hello

I just recently sold a computer part earlier this month through eBay. The payment was received but I noticed that the address was a freight forwarder in Delaware. The item was shipped and successfully delivered

However, two days ago the buyer filed a SNAD case claiming the box was empty. I went ahead and contacted the freight forwarder directly and they have responded back to me, confirming that this package was indeed forwarded to the buyer. 

From my understanding, ebay's MBG is voided if they use a forwarder. However, I know it's typically hard to prove that a buyer used a forwarder. However, since I have written proof (plus pictures of the parcel from the company), do I have any ground to stand on? Furthermore, what should I do about the return?

[pikabo-icu]

I would respond to the case with the delivery confirmation and the message from the freight forwarder and quote the policy just to be thorough. 

Normally in these cases it's always best to reply: return for refund but you're correct in the case of freight forwarders.

Policy here https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy... 

[tdumonde2014]

EBay's Money-Back Guarantee is not voided when using a freight forwarder. I forget which blue told us this, but you're welcome to search for it.

[pikabo-icu]

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@tdumonde2014 wrote:

EBay's Money-Back Guarantee is not voided when using a freight forwarder. I forget which blue told us this, but you're welcome to search for it.

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They stated it wrongly..  That was Trinton and he is not here any longer

It's in the policy I linked 

Covered:

• The item was forwarded as part of an eBay program such as:
  • Global Shipping Program
  • eBay international standard delivery
  • eBay Authenticity Guarantee

Not covered:

• The buyer used third-party freight forwarding or mail redirection

[eleanor*rigby]

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@lovethehype wrote:

Hello

I just recently sold a computer part earlier this month through eBay. The payment was received but I noticed that the address was a freight forwarder in Delaware. The item was shipped and successfully delivered

However, two days ago the buyer filed a SNAD case claiming the box was empty. I went ahead and contacted the freight forwarder directly and they have responded back to me, confirming that this package was indeed forwarded to the buyer. 

From my understanding, ebay's MBG is voided if they use a forwarder. However, I know it's typically hard to prove that a buyer used a forwarder. However, since I have written proof (plus pictures of the parcel from the company), do I have any ground to stand on? Furthermore, what should I do about the return?

---

Supposedly, a statement from the freight forwarder that the parcel was indeed forwarded to the buyer should be similar to the kind of proof eBay might be looking for in a case like yours. (Notice how I hedged my response there? That was not a coincidence . . . )

From a discussion thread in February of 2020. Upon being asked what kind of proof of forwarding eBay might accept, a Community Team Member responded:

The thread is rather lengthy, but, IMO, it might be worth your while to read it. When you get to the end, you'll understand why I used such non-committal language in my first statement.

Freight forwarders 

[lovethehype]

Will eBay continue to investigate the claim even after I click "Accept return"? Or do I need to sort this all out before I click? I have until tomorrow per return details to provide an acceptable response to the return request. 

From my understanding, eBay will automatically send the refund if I don't respond on my own. 

[tdumonde2014]

The Policy you quote is for an INR, buyer will be claiming SNAD.

[Anonymous]

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@tdumonde2014 wrote:

The Policy you quote is for an INR, buyer will be claiming SNAD.

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Nice catch. I missed that one too.

[rebell45]

You are correct, you need to respond by the deadline to have any chance to get your item back. Then you'll have to figure out how to get a return label or money for shipping to the buyer.

Just don't refund until you get the item back.  Hopefully, you won't end up with a box of rocks.

My understanding is that shipping to a forwarder only protects you against an INR claim.

[pikabo-icu]

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@lovethehype wrote:

Will eBay continue to investigate the claim even after I click "Accept return"? Or do I need to sort this all out before I click? I have until tomorrow per return details to provide an acceptable response to the return request. 

From my understanding, eBay will automatically send the refund if I don't respond on my own. 

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From my understanding of Policy, you don't need to accept the retrun.

It's YOUR decision but me, I would deny the claim, post delivery confirmation, the message from the freight forwarder and the policy I quoted you above.

That should be enough to close in your favor BUT- the bots may first find for the buyer as they always do- you would need to appeal to get human eyes on the case.

This is a RARE case when policy is cut and dried- MBG doesn't apply.

The convo with Trinton was a hot mess and he was not citing the policy correctly.. 

@a_c_green  Check it out.. That thread is still causing confusion. UGH

[ittybitnot]

From my understanding, ebay's MBG is voided if they use a forwarder. 

@lovethehype 

Simply the use of a freight forwarder address no longer voids the MBG.  You have to provide "proof" the the item was actually forwarded.  Whether or not eBay will accept your proof is the present issue. Truly, I hope this works out for you.  Do not let the timelines for your case expire. 

eBay may "deny" the issue altogether stating the "buyer" provided a police report.  Be advised a "fake" police report will suffice in many instances, and the trend is now NOT to give you a copy of this used as evidence against you.  

Though, in the past, shipping to freight forwarders was not much of an issue, the buyers that use  ones in Delaware have built up quite a nasty rep here.  The recent trend for these buyers is not to use the old "cheap trinket" return scam (you can research that here) anymore. and go directly to the "empty box" claim.   eBay is well aware of this issue, but this is a very difficult issue for a seller to contest, due to the automated return flow and not allowing most of the CS reps to help you. 

You may wish to take the "fast track" here and send your documentation through the SEND MESSAGE feature on the facebook eBay for Business page.  Name, address, phone no, user ID, transaction number, etc. along with your proof.  

In the meantime, you can read this saga of a seller in a similar situation.  This is just one of many: 

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Obviously-fake-police-report-submitted-to-ebay-ebay-using-it-t...


You can view the phony police report buy using the link at the bottom of opening post. 

Please do come back and let us know how this turns out for you. 

[lovethehype]

From what I'm reading, freight forwarders are still not acceptable under SNAD cases. 

[pikabo-icu]

No it is exactly the same..

Scroll down.  I tried to post but it's doing the html thing..

Exclusions and special coverage when the item doesn't match the listing
The item was collected by a third party on behalf of the buyer

Not covered

The buyer arranged their own shipping method, such as a courier pickup

Not covered

The item was sent to another address after original delivery

Covered:

The item was forwarded as part of an eBay program such as:
Global Shipping Program
eBay international standard delivery
eBay Authenticity Guarantee
Not covered:

The buyer used third-party freight forwarding or mail redirection
The item was inspected under Authenticity Guarantee and sold as 'final sale'

Covered:

The item was damaged during shipping
Not covered:

The buyer requested a return for any other reason
The buyer returned the item used or damaged

Covered:

The use was necessary to determine the quality or functioning of the item, or the damage was the result of that use
Otherwise, some sellers may deduct the loss in value from the amount refunded to the buyer. See our Condition of returned items policy

[lovethehype]

Currently, my proof is written documentation from the warehouse manager of the forwarding company that this package was indeed forwarded to the customer. They take pictures and weight of every package they receive and send back out 

[pikabo-icu]

@ittybitnot  @Anonymous @tdumonde2014 

The policy says it is NOT covered under INAD

You have to scroll down to see the SNAD policy..

Trinton posted what he posted but that is NOT what the policy says.. He doesn't work at eBay any longer. 

Exclusions and special coverage when the item doesn't match the listing

Not covered:

The buyer used third-party freight forwarding or mail redirection

That said eBay has been known to violate their own policy, at least until it's quoted and often viewed on appeal.