Blueprints for Scammers

[siamdao]

Just an observation and wondering what thoughts are.  Many of the postings in this discussion are made by sellers who either have been or feel as though they will be the victim of a scam of some sort or another.  They go into great details regarding the history and outcomes of such transactions.   I sometimes worry that there are users who regularly browse these topics to get new ideas for how to perpetrate their next scheme.    I know it's important to share ideas and such, but wondering out loud what the potential downside of it is.

[nobody*s_perfect]

There are facebook groups and other discussion boards devoted to eBay shananigans. There's no need for a dishonest member to wade through all of the boring threads here in the eBay Community in order to pick up tips and tricks. There are only about a half-dozen basic maneuvers, anyway.

[ten_o_nine]

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@siamdao wrote:

Just an observation and wondering what thoughts are.  Many of the postings in this discussion are made by sellers who either have been or feel as though they will be the victim of a scam of some sort or another.  They go into great details regarding the history and outcomes of such transactions.   I sometimes worry that there are users who regularly browse these topics to get new ideas for how to perpetrate their next scheme.    I know it's important to share ideas and such, but wondering out loud what the potential downside of it is.

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They don't need to, it's abundant!!! When the doors start to close a little, they may come here for new ideas, just my opinion.

[annadryl · Accepted solution]

Yes, there are outside forums for all kinds of dark arts and people who want to find them will. I agree that there is no good reason for someone who has been ripped off to post step-by-step instructions anywhere in public for anyone to casually stumble upon. I'm not sure what would motivate a scam victim (or possible victim) to open up more doors for potential crooks by educating the masses. It never makes sense but we see it daily  

[siamdao]

Wow, never knew that such resources existed.   It's a shame that it has become a cottage industry so to speak 😞

[fr8hvnhet0]

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@siamdao wrote:

Just an observation and wondering what thoughts are.  Many of the postings in this discussion are made by sellers who either have been or feel as though they will be the victim of a scam of some sort or another.  They go into great details regarding the history and outcomes of such transactions.   I sometimes worry that there are users who regularly browse these topics to get new ideas for how to perpetrate their next scheme.    I know it's important to share ideas and such, but wondering out loud what the potential downside of it is.

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If there exists in fact a method via which a buyer can perpetrate a scam I am specifically and enthusiastically in favor of publishing it as prolifically as possible because the faster it becomes a BIG problem the higher the likelihood that something might be done about it.

There is little worse than a scam being kept secret. I am completely in favor of being totally transparent always and if scammers wish to come here to inform themselves on how to take advantage of sellers we should post invitation signs with directions!

So much so am I in favor of transparency I am willing to write out explicit step-by-step instructions but I don't do it for no reason either, if it's a problem it should be brought out to the light, my attitude.

[siamdao]

I can understand your perspective and agree that transparency is important.  What would also be beneficial in this process is to know what eBay is doing to guard sellers against these types of scams--as they seem to frequently and repeatedly happen based on what I have read in the discussions.  Listing a bunch of problems is only helpful if they lead to some form of collective solution(s).  Knowing that eBay was being more transparent in their handling of these situations and implementing policy to try to minimize the risk to sellers would be great comfort 🙂

[escuintla]

Basically you are asking for the forum to cease to exist. There's no way to know what's going if we allow ourselves to be a shell with a little individual inside suffering scams or extortions because nobody wants to explain or educate the masses on what to do. 

A crook person will be always a crook. Whether they come here to learn what they may already want to do, let it be. Nobody here can, will, or volunteer to send "instructions" to other sellers, which may be in the millions. He or she would be basically working for free to prevent "something from happening". 

And, it's true. There are "dark sites" where personal, economic, political, and sexual preferences are sold. If we don't talk about the consequences of their actions, of what happened to somebody, and hat he or she did, basically we are telling them we don't care. 

[fr8hvnhet0]

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@siamdao wrote:

I can understand your perspective and agree that transparency is important.  What would also be beneficial in this process is to know what eBay is doing to guard sellers against these types of scams--as they seem to frequently and repeatedly happen based on what I have read in the discussions.  Listing a bunch of problems is only helpful if they lead to some form of collective solution(s).  Knowing that eBay was being more transparent in their handling of these situations and implementing policy to try to minimize the risk to sellers would be great comfort 🙂

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Oh, I am just as quick at exposing seller-side scams as I believe neither to be beneficial.

[justagirl12]

Agreed.

[gracieallen01]

It is quite true that the more people who know about a scam, the more that may try it themselves.

However, the more people that know what to look for by being aware of how a scam works, the more that can/might protect - or at least prepare - themselves against a scam.

People, being people, there is always going to be someone who is going to try to get something for nothing from someone else. 

There have been 'rule/law enforcers' - or their equivalent - for all of recorded history.  Nothing has changed.

[castlemagicmemories]

Due to the frequency of these posts, it leads one to think that many have the "every buyer is a scammer" philosophy, and they act accordingly for issues that may not be the buyer's fault.

I have had it said that posting that sellers may not treat a buyer with a legitimate issue well, and that it may not encourage sales.  Yet the fact that a buyer can read these Boards and see that many sellers think this way isn't discouraged, and that certainly isn't going to encourage sales, yet that poster didn't see that.

Some sellers do understand that there are bad sellers and bad buyers; but again many blame the buyer.  Just the way it is.  

To address your concern, yes, there is concern that info may help a legitimate scammer.  

[muttlymob]

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@siamdao wrote:

I can understand your perspective and agree that transparency is important.  What would also be beneficial in this process is to know what eBay is doing to guard sellers against these types of scams--as they seem to frequently and repeatedly happen based on what I have read in the discussions.  Listing a bunch of problems is only helpful if they lead to some form of collective solution(s).  Knowing that eBay was being more transparent in their handling of these situations and implementing policy to try to minimize the risk to sellers would be great comfort 🙂

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In my opinion, the benefits to informing sellers of the potential scams so they can protect themselves far outweighs the potential for dishonest buyers to learn how to run the scams.

If you (or any other seller) are waiting for eBay to protect you, then you are raising the likelihood of falling for the scams.  There is no way for eBay to regulate every aspect of selling to the point where there will be no scams.  Sellers need to protect themselves.  Learn about the scams.  It's your money on the line, do what you can to keep it.  Don't wait for someone else to save you.

There is safety in knowledge.

[tunicaslot]

And many buyers blame the sellers despite being reasonable explanations or the buyers themselves not doing their due diligence - it works both ways.

Any person can google or go to youtube and get step by step of the latest schemes out there - they aren't only revealed in secret groups. Many in society these days want their 15 minutes and aren't concerned how they get it. It's a legitimate question OP - but the amt of both buyers and sellers that use these boards are miniscule.  

[ittybitnot]

I sometimes worry that there are users who regularly browse these topics to get new ideas for how to perpetrate their next scheme.  

Typically, by the time the information is discussed here, it is old news as far as scammers go.  It is best to be proactive as one can to INFORM users against these issues and what to look for.  Keeping silent about it would not be acceptable.  It makes about as much sense as refusing to inform teenagers about unprotected sexual behavior with the idea that if "nobody talks about it, then it won't happen".  

Scamming on ebay is already happening.  You cannot rely on ebay to let you know what situations to avoid be you a buyer or seller.  We tell each other.