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Bleeding us dry

Does anyone here feel like they are being taken advantage of? Not in a small way, like when your best friend always wants to borrow your clothes, or when your boyfriend always insists on picking the movie--but in a serious and life changing way? I sit here now thinking of all the injustices that I continue to experience as a seller here--that seemingly endless feeling of dread because I never know what is going to happen next--am I going to be able to pay my bills in a month? Or will eBay come up with a new scheme to freeze me out? Who will the "chosen" ones be six months from now? I am pondering the callous way that my livelihood and financial well being have been treated by this company.

 

In truth, I am not a valued trading partner, I am a servant--always running from punishment, trying desperately to stay one step ahead--grateful for the few crumbs that are tossed my way. I have no rights--I can't even control the items that I post here, as eBay will change them--without warning or permission--any time they feel like it.  And instead of learning how to become a better seller, I have instead only gotten more ignorant--as my ability to glean understanding, research, and expand my knowledge has been essentially cut off--with many of the useful and educational features of the site made unavailable to me now.  What is left is only the constant stress and pressure that they try to instill in us--and they certainly do seem to love keeping us all worrying about the next defect, bad feedback, Final Value Fee Penalization, or the next false SNAD case.  Nothing instills more fear and dread in me than reading a sentence from eBay that begins with "In order to help sellers...."  And I can't help but feel that, in some way, there is an even darker underlying agenda--rather than just the simple scheme of keeping the stock holders happy.

 

Whether the indignities imposed upon sellers are by design, or stem from pure ignorance and apathy, it makes no difference--the imbalance of control, power, and financial reward here, the clear favoritism shown by eBay to some, but not all sellers, and the increased intrusions into our listings, stores, and bank accounts, has made selling here unbearable.  With sellers losing more autonomy daily, we have essentially become the assistant managers in our own stores. Not what any of us had in mind, I'm sure, when we set out to start our own businesses. 

 

I just want to know--how much more money is going to be pilfered from our pockets--when is it going to be enough? I am in utter disbelief at the audacity and gall eBay has--pressuring us to do these promoted listings. There is a reminder at the bottom of your listing page that you see every time you list an item, and under every single one of my listings in bright GREEN it says that the listing is "eligible for promoted listings." No kidding eBay--just in case I wasn't sure, thanks for writing it 950 times for me, in case I forgot.

 

And I am certainly reminded as I look through the items that are for sale. There they are--thousands upon thousands, if not millions of promoted listings all over the place.  And all I can think to myself is--just like when everyone gets a trophy, promoted listings cease to be interesting or a draw for buyers when everyone has them. Then we have the sellers who offer "free" returns with their Top Rated Plus beside their listings, and for the sellers who really bend over backwards--well, they get a quicker shipping time--isn't that nice? We all use the same services, but for some reason my estimated delivery time has gone from four days to SEVEN, and last night it was NINE (and that is shipping to MYSELF--who knows what a buyer in California is seeing) and right alongside of my listings are listings from other sellers quoting four days still.  Right before the holidays--isn't that just wonderful? I called eBay, and of course I was told that there was nothing wrong, that I'm still in the Guaranteed Delivery Program--and that my listings ARE showing up as guaranteed--they are just guaranteed for a week from now. Um--isn't that little green estimated delivery banner, that shows that I ship FAST, and meant to instill confidence in the buyer, what I gave up selling multiple items to one buyer for? I've lost a ton of sales because I can't send an invoice--in truth, forcing buyers to "Buy it now" has been detrimental to my bottom line on many occasions. Buyers just don't feel confident that I will either A. Refund them AFTER they purchase,  after they've paid all the shipping up front, or B. They think that I am full of it and trying to rip them off in some way because other sellers have been able to send them invoices, no problem.  I don't blame them a bit--I am exactly like that too--I want to know before I pay what the discount will be for combined shipping--and I want it in writing--I totally see their point. Why am I even in the Guaranteed Delivery Program? Why did I go through the trouble? So that now eBay can decide, once again, that it just isn't good enough for them? That program hasn't even been in effect for very long, and already they are tweaking it, or making it irrelevant?

 

Every day it is something new. Every. Single. Day. There is a new glitch or page change, or information that you were previously able to view that is no longer available.  How is it that they have SO much time that they can change things every day, yet last week THREE of my listings from 2017 mysteriously popped up in my store? I thought they were so worried about buyer satisfaction? Well, someone buying something that was sold in 2017 would surely cause just a tad bit of dissatisfaction. You think somebody could take the time to fix that? I mean, its only been happening for years now.

 

I cannot believe how much of our ability to use the site has disappeared. We can't look at our individual star ratings anymore, we can't see what other buyers or sellers have purchased, and we can't even access our OWN listings after a couple of months. I can't buy from some of my favorite sellers anymore because all of my purchases are GONE--and what is even worse is that I can't even LOOK for those sellers on eBay anymore because you CAN'T find a seller by their name anymore. What could possibly be the reasoning behind that? The only reason I can see for all those changes was to discourage repeat buyers for the small sellers. Every single one of those changes led to nothing but decreased sales for the smaller sellers. But why would they want to do that?

 

I was thinking the other day that they must be getting ready to charge, like Worthpoint, for knowledge about product prices. Didn't we used to get six months or a year's worth of prices in the Advanced search? And didn't there used to be a button that let us "Search the Description" in the advanced search? Like the button underneath the regular search? Why is it all of the sudden such a big deal to see what sold? Or to find a seller you like? Is there even a reason, or is eBay just closing down our access to information in an effort to make us concentrate on what they want us to be looking at? Like the 950 lines of bright green on my screen urging me give them more money?

 

All I know is that I am working WAY longer hours and making about half the money I made two years ago. Between losing my 20% FVF discount, the INSANE shipping increases at the Post Office (which now they just reach right in your account and TAKE what they THINK you owe them for short shipping).  I just got one the other day for almost five dollars, although when I have my packages weighed at the PO I am never short. What can I even do? eBay has made it **bleep** near impossible to access any information. They didn't even put what transaction I had made the "mistake" on--not even the DATE--and by the time I look everything up, go through the hassle of trying to navigate my way through Paypal AND eBay just to figure out what sale it was, well, by then I will have probably eaten up way more than 5 dollars worth of time. And who knows what kind of a hassle it will be to fight it--and I suppose that is what they are counting on. They tell us enough, and keep us just smart enough to do the basics, but let us be ignorant of how to help and protect ourselves.

 

Where is the respect? What right does the Post Office have to just stick their hands into our accounts and take money without asking us first? I'm not upset about the five bucks, but I AM upset about the fact that I wasn't asked or alerted first--on eBay or Paypal--I don't know if they send an email--I don't check mine because there are always 500 emails from eBay in there for any and every little listing change or sale I make--I can't wade through all that clogged mess. But why would eBay allow them to just take our money? Maybe it's because eBay is reaping its own rewards by either taking a percentage of what the Post Office re-coups, or maybe its from withholding some of what should be our "shipping discount?" I never believed it before, but honestly--do you really think a company that has gotten so ridiculously greedy, and so calloused towards its sellers WOULDN'T do such a thing?

 

And now we all have to worry about the new Tax changes. Another dent in our ever-shrinking incomes. I live in Pennsylvania--it is one of the poorest, most disadvantaged states I have ever lived in, and I've lived in a lot of them. So why would PA choose to tax an already suffering and poverty stricken populace? Oh, and also--we don't have Economy shipping here--no ground shipping whatsoever. I just can't understand what the reasoning is for that--we could certainly use it. Is the goal here to widen the divide between the rich and the poor? Essentially wiping out the middle class--making us a population of only masters and slaves? Royalty and serfs? 

 

We are essentially being nickled and dimed right into poverty.  There are so many different hands in my pot, that there isn't enough left to feed my own family anymore. Everyone I know lives paycheck to paycheck--and most are college grads. How has this happened? Well, let's take eBay CEO's and stock holders Vs. the "little" sellers on the ground, you know, the ones actually making things happen. How could the CEO of eBay possible understand what a difference 5% makes to us little people? How could he even have a concept of what an increase of 65 cents in shipping could do to our businesses? He's shoveling millions at the already uber-wealthy executives. Taking a few dollars here, skimming a couple there, taking away our discounts and incentives with no warning and no explanation--spread across all the sellers on the site, we're talking some serious cash.  He is looking at millions daily--while we are counting pennies.

 

Every time I turn around it seems I am assaulted with eBay demanding that I give either them or the buyers more of my hard earned profit--and it is not only irritating, but its also really scary. How can they not understand how slim the profit margins are for so many of their sellers? Do they not understand how difficult THEY have made it to sell on their platform? I waste more time just trying to figure out what the heck they are up to, than I spend listing. I haven't even fully recovered from losing my 20% discount, and already there they are with their hands out wanting more.  It's the reverse of Robin Hood--robbing the poor to pay the rich--and it's sickening, quite honestly. They JUST gave themselves, essentially a HUGE raise, with millions of sellers who lost their 20% discount on final value fees. Wouldn't you think that the millions (billions?) that they JUST scooped up might be enough to satisfy them for at least a little while? I'm stunned by the greed of this company--just floored. 

 

This is nothing new though--throughout history, and especially before the fall of most great civilizations there has been class distinction, and a huge disparity between the have's and have-not's.  But what is becoming increasingly bothersome to me is the brazen entitlement of the eBay leaders to simply take what they want--without notification or permission--and even more troubling is that they granted access to an outside entity, the Post Office, to also grab what they want from our tills. What's next? Are they going to allow the IRS or hospitals to collect our debts from our accounts? What in the world can we expect when eBay takes over as the payment provider--I'm seriously going to have nightmares tonight.

 

To me, it shows a serious lack of consideration for our privacy, and no regard for our boundaries. And much like how the peasants were treated--kept ignorant, living hand to mouth, always made aware of the fact that their livelihood and well being depended upon being granted favor by the noble class--we too have somehow slipped into the status of being invisible--disposable, for the most part. We are tolerated as long as we are useful, but we are not relevant or considered essential to the grand plan.  Which leads me to believe that there are going to be many more fingers tugging at our pockets in the future.

 

The sheer lack of respect and the refusal to take any of our objections, or even appeals for fairer conditions, or even just a level playing field--well, that says to me that the leaders of this company are above listening to the complaints of the common man. To their eventual and inevitable demise.  Don't get me wrong, I'm sure eBay will manage to hang in there somehow--but there are going to be many who will fail and fall in the process--not just the small sellers, although there will be plenty of us reduced to road kill--but the real failures here are the leaders--those who were given guardianship over millions of people's livelihood's, and tasked with commanding the ship effectively, not steering it into the rocks. 

 

When this is all said and done, many of those men will be looked upon--not as innovators and trailblazers, who not only succeeded in their careers, but who were also conscientious shepherds of the many families financial futures that were entrusted to them--but instead as heedless blunderers--known only for their unbendible adherence to visionless, poorly thought out plots and schemes. They will be remembered simply for their reckless negligence--men who believed blindly in the conviction that the few deserve to profit, despite the suffering of the many. 

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Re: Bleeding us dry


@myjunqueyourtreasure wrote:
For "ebay's stance" perhaps you too should read post #2 in the thread posted above.

Just saying.

The post above is from LAST YEAR and no longer the policy how how things work.
The new policy states......

Final value fee credit

If for some reason the buyer ends up not paying, you need to either cancel the sale or report it as an unpaid item in order to be eligible for a final value fee credit.


Insertion fees and advanced listing upgrade fees apply to each listing you create, are charged at the time of listing or relisting, as applicable, and are nonrefundable. Fee amounts are based on the terms in effect when the listing goes live and when it renews. If you select more than one category for your listing, insertion and optional feature fees apply for each category

Message 91 of 133
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Re: Bleeding us dry


@race-face_rc wrote:
It is also not my fault that the buyer backed out.

 

But I pay the bill for it? This is as wrong as wrong can be!

 

Ask someone with an ounce of common sense and they will agree with me! 


If they agree or not does not change the policy unfortunatley.  I am sorry someone posted a link to old info from last year but here is the newest version of the policy. Again you may be able to get a courtesey refund

Final value fee credit

If for some reason the buyer ends up not paying, you need to either cancel the sale or report it as an unpaid item in order to be eligible for a final value fee credit.

Insertion fees and advanced listing upgrade fees apply to each listing you create, are charged at the time of listing or relisting, as applicable, and are nonrefundable.

Message 92 of 133
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Re: Bleeding us dry

Apparently you don't know what you are talking about.

 

A CSR who made something up??? She told me this is their policy!

 

My acount WAS credited for the FVF ... but NOT the 'AD FEE' . It's all right there for me to see.  A dumb CSR can't change what I can clearly see on my monthly bill!

 

And as far as the $6 subtitle fee ... I should at the very least be refunded for the first one. This indecisive buyer ended the listing when he bought and paid for the item. I had to pay again for something that I reaped absolutely no benefit from.

 

You are right about one thing ... The fact that the buyer changed his mind is not Ebay's fault. But it is also NO FAULT OF MINE! Anyone with even a dim sense of reaon/logic should ask ... How should anyone be allowed to profit on this??? I am in the hole for $25.79 ... simply because I approved the cancellation of an order? How is this right? How is this just? On any planet?     

 

Using the warped logic that you/Ebay are spewing, why should they have even refunded me for the FVF?

 

Hell, why not just keep it all then? Seriously??? Keep the Final value Fee too, Ebay! It's not your fault the buyer changed his mind!

 

Gimme a break!

 

Message 93 of 133
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Re: Bleeding us dry


@race-face_rc wrote:

Apparently you don't know what you are talking about.

 

A CSR who made something up??? She told me this is their policy!

 

My acount WAS credited for the FVF ... but NOT the 'AD FEE' . It's all right there for me to see.  A dumb CSR can't change what I can clearly see on my monthly bill!

 

And as far as the $6 subtitle fee ... I should at the very least be refunded for the first one. This indecisive buyer ended the listing when he bought and paid for the item. I had to pay again for something that I reaped absolutely no benefit from.

 

You are right about one thing ... The fact that the buyer changed his mind is not Ebay's fault. But it is also NO FAULT OF MINE! Anyone with even a dim sense of reaon/logic should ask ... How should anyone be allowed to profit on this??? I am in the hole for $25.79 ... simply because I approved the cancellation of an order? How is this right? How is this just? On any planet?     

 

Using the warped logic that you/Ebay are spewing, why should they have even refunded me for the FVF?

 

Hell, why not just keep it all then? Seriously??? Keep the Final value Fee too, Ebay! It's not your fault the buyer changed his mind!

 

Gimme a break!

 


They refunded the FVF's because that is the policy.
EBay is following their posted policy.
There is not much anyone can do beyond letting you know what the current policy is.

Message 94 of 133
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Re: Bleeding us dry

Ok ... Look.

 

I FULLY understand that this is Ebay's "policy".

 

THAT IS THE PROBLEM! Try to understand this  ... The complaints that you read here are directed at the unfairness of these "policies"! The lack of common sense & common decency, that is, Ebay "policy".

 

It is WRONG that Ebay is making a profit (at our expense) for items that never sold !  

 

Get it?

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Re: Bleeding us dry


@race-face_rc wrote:

Ok ... Look.

 

I FULLY understand that this is Ebay's "policy".

 

THAT IS THE PROBLEM! Try to understand this  ... The complaints that you read here are directed at the unfairness of these "policies"! The lack of common sense & common decency, that is, Ebay "policy".

 

It is WRONG that Ebay is making a profit (at our expense) for items that never sold !  

 

Get it?


I sympathize and understand  you are upset........but I've always looked at those fees as the same as a newspaper.......  You choose whatever level of ad you want and pay that fee..........whether it sells or not........

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Re: Bleeding us dry

Yes. CSRs make stuff up all the time.

 

 

Reality is the leading cause of stress.
Message 97 of 133
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Re: Bleeding us dry

 

Ebay's 'Promoted Listings' ... The biggest scam since Enron!

 

One just has to wonder how much money Ebay grabs up daily, on canceled orders that were billed as "promoted".

 

 

 

 

Message 98 of 133
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Re: Bleeding us dry

Maybe we should ask @Anonymous as he answered this question in a weekly chat.
Reality is the leading cause of stress.
Message 99 of 133
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Re: Bleeding us dry


@race-face_rc wrote:

Ok ... Look.

 

I FULLY understand that this is Ebay's "policy".

 

THAT IS THE PROBLEM! Try to understand this  ... The complaints that you read here are directed at the unfairness of these "policies"! The lack of common sense & common decency, that is, Ebay "policy".

 

It is WRONG that Ebay is making a profit (at our expense) for items that never sold !  

 

Get it?


I do get it and I know you are upset and angry but they did not make any money of "the item" itself being sold or cancelled.
The additional listings fees you pay regardless....and you did get those things/they provided them. Ebay did give you what you paid for. You would pay them even if the item did not sell at all. So the cacellation itself really plays no part in that...just with the FVF's.
I do not believe that we should get everything for free or entitled to get everythign for free and I also believe there are reasonable cost to us doing business.
I also believe that we have the choice to add those or not knowing there is a cost involved in advance...and either accept that or not.

Kinda like putting an ad in the newspaper....you pay for that ad regardless of whether or not it generates anything for you. It isn't free because no one bought anything from it.

Message 100 of 133
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Re: Bleeding us dry

 

I have no problem paying the 'AD FEE' , IF the item actually sells ... It's my choice.

 

However, the buyer of this item requested that I cancel the order & refund payment.

 

I did so, FULLY.  It did not sell.

 

Ebay refunded the FVF ... but they will not refund the $19.79 'AD FEE' that was also added to my invoice at the time of purchase. Not to mention, they won't credit the $6 subtitle fee, that I had to pay again, when I relisted the item. 

 

Ebay 'POLICY' essentially taxes sellers, simply for practicing good business. 

 

Maybe I should have just ignored the request to cancel/refund, and shipped the item anyway?

 

Then what? What's Ebay's Policy on that? 

Message 101 of 133
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Re: Bleeding us dry

NO ... YOU DON'T PAY THE AD FEE IF THE ITEM DOES NOT SELL!

 

Where are you getting this information?

 

The ad fee is only to be billed to your account if the item actually sells! That's part of the draw of the whole thing. That's the only reason that I decided to give it a go. I am not paying any 'ad fee' UNLESS the item actually sells. That's how it works!

 

This was an item that was paid for... then the purchase was canceled. I was refunded the FVF ... but not the AD FEE. 

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Re: Bleeding us dry


@18704d wrote:

 

"..but there is value is making your voice heard-..."

------

 

Yes but,

I think you'd have a better chance of having your voice heard

if that all was organized and presented in a far shorter and more to-the-point manner.

 

Respectfully, I copied and posted your opening post

into a word-counter website.

 

2552 words.

 

Thanks,

Lynn

 


Ironically, that is the precise length that tends to be thought of as "strong content" in most online search engine algorithms.

 

Some may find it a bit too wordy, but the robots that run the internet (and forum searches, etc) are very eager to share these type of posts with users. 

 

In regards to the OP, I definitely agree with much of the sentiments, we are definitely working more hours for less margin. 

 

But policy issues are going to exist at any time. I'm more concerned in making sure tech issues & SAFETY for sellers is improved. If we don't have to live in fear of a 50% drop next month because eBay broke something, we can make it work even with unfair policies.

 

Because policy issues, are the same for all sellers. We all must deal with it in order to compete.

 

But when things take away your ability to compete, like tech issues? That's a gamechanger. That MUST be fixed!

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Re: Bleeding us dry


@race-face_rc wrote:

 

I have no problem paying the 'AD FEE' , IF the item actually sells ... It's my choice.

 

However, the buyer of this item requested that I cancel the order & refund payment.

 

I did so, FULLY.  It did not sell.

 

Ebay refunded the FVF ... but they will not refund the $19.79 'AD FEE' that was also added to my invoice at the time of purchase. Not to mention, they won't credit the $6 subtitle fee, that I had to pay again, when I relisted the item. 

 

Ebay 'POLICY' essentially taxes sellers, simply for practicing good business. 

 

Maybe I should have just ignored the request to cancel/refund, and shipped the item anyway?

 

Then what? What's Ebay's Policy on that? 


The option to cancel or not, is yours..that has never changed.
The additional listing options, subtitles etc was also your choice/option and not required for the listing and those fees and what is refundable or not, is posted. You listed knowing there were additional fees as it shows those fees before you confirm the submission of the listing. Whether or not you knew the policy about them being non refundable, I do not know. But if not you are aware now.
You DID received the additional exposure on your listings that you paid for....and it is not and never was guaranteed to generate a sale  ..but you did receive exactly what you paid for in that regard. Having a sale or not does not change you did receive what you paid for in this regard.

The sale of the item is completely separate. The sale was cancelled and the buyer was refunded so your fees on "the sale" were refunded. Ebay cannot and does take final value fees on the sale of the item when there is no sale.

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Re: Bleeding us dry


@zamo-zuan wrote:

 

But when things take away your ability to compete, like tech issues? That's a gamechanger. That MUST be fixed!



I think this is something we all agree on but what we consider an issue sometimes is exactly how ebay wants it for some unfathomable reason and do not consider it an issue. That in and of itself is an issue...lol

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