Appealing Service Metrics

[sfc_auto_parts]

@Anonymous  

I've reported a couple of false snads and have already issued refunds.  How long does the reporting process take for these snads to be removed from service metrics?  

[zamo-zuan]

---

@brettyg599 wrote:

@Anonymous 

As I have detailed to you and many others have it is showing him at very high with less than 1.5% SNAD claims. That seems very low, and definitely not industry standard for sports apparel on the internet. This is the reason ebay needs to disclose how this information was gathered and how his peer group percentages were calculated. 

Based on the total number of sales in his graph he is a HUGE seller on ebay and you guys should seriously take notice to help protect him.  Honestly he deserves a call back from a manager or specialist to review his SNADS and try and help where they can.  The fact you are just dismissing it makes me sick as a business professional.  

This guy makes ebay tons of money and shown in his graphs nearly 99% of the time delivers the product he sold and has a satisfied buyer.  If you guys won't try and help him, what hope is there for any of us?

Step up man. He deserves it and ebay is better than this, to just say TOO BAD is not good enough. Put yourself in his shoes and investigate the false claims he is saying he has evidence of and see if there is validity. He is owed that.

---

I absolutely agree.

This is a very frustrating situation. I've seen many threads on here where many of us have shared that service metric dings are not being removed.

I understand that the eBay representatives on here may be under the impression that they are being removed, but in reality, there's more than enough examples of this happening to realize they aren't being removed properly. How many threads have there been on this topic and sellers who experienced this problem?

This is in addition to eBay phone representatives giving different stories each time. Some say they are supposed to be removed, some say they will only be removed if an abusive buyer, and so on.

And this isn't even factoring in the biggest problem at all with the metrics: The entire Motors site is treated as 1 big category! It's not properly separated in to categories!

This means 50% of the categories that are lower risk have an unfair advantage, and the 50% of the categories that are higher risk have an unfair disadvantage! 

If you sell in Motors, you are CERTAINLY not being compared to your "peers".

You would think considering this major, blatant flaw in the system, eBay would support sellers in Motors by helping them remove unfair service metrics in situations that they should be removed. But trying to get assistance on this doesn't get sellers anywhere...

[Anonymous]

---

@zamo-zuan wrote:

---

@brettyg599 wrote:

@Anonymous 

As I have detailed to you and many others have it is showing him at very high with less than 1.5% SNAD claims. That seems very low, and definitely not industry standard for sports apparel on the internet. This is the reason ebay needs to disclose how this information was gathered and how his peer group percentages were calculated. 

Based on the total number of sales in his graph he is a HUGE seller on ebay and you guys should seriously take notice to help protect him.  Honestly he deserves a call back from a manager or specialist to review his SNADS and try and help where they can.  The fact you are just dismissing it makes me sick as a business professional.  

This guy makes ebay tons of money and shown in his graphs nearly 99% of the time delivers the product he sold and has a satisfied buyer.  If you guys won't try and help him, what hope is there for any of us?

Step up man. He deserves it and ebay is better than this, to just say TOO BAD is not good enough. Put yourself in his shoes and investigate the false claims he is saying he has evidence of and see if there is validity. He is owed that.

---

I absolutely agree.

This is a very frustrating situation. I've seen many threads on here where many of us have shared that service metric dings are not being removed.

I understand that the eBay representatives on here may be under the impression that they are being removed, but in reality, there's more than enough examples of this happening to realize they aren't being removed properly. How many threads have there been on this topic and sellers who experienced this problem?

This is in addition to eBay phone representatives giving different stories each time. Some say they are supposed to be removed, some say they will only be removed if an abusive buyer, and so on.

And this isn't even factoring in the biggest problem at all with the metrics: The entire Motors site is treated as 1 big category! It's not properly separated in to categories!

This means 50% of the categories that are lower risk have an unfair advantage, and the 50% of the categories that are higher risk have an unfair disadvantage! 

If you sell in Motors, you are CERTAINLY not being compared to your "peers".

You would think considering this major, blatant flaw in the system, eBay would support sellers in Motors by helping them remove unfair service metrics in situations that they should be removed. But trying to get assistance on this doesn't get sellers anywhere...

---

Hi @zamo-zuan, we are happy to review any examples of seller protections not applying properly. While I understand that there are a number of conversations about this in the Community, this would not be an accurate measure of whether there is an issue or not - even within this thread, there were multiple sellers reporting protections not applying when in actuality all of the instances I've investigated were not eligible. Many sellers report that they are "not receiving protections", but in actuality, they may simply not qualify for protections. This doesn't mean I won't be happy to look into a potential issue that is occurring, it is just something I wanted to call out for you to keep in mind.

As for motors, a part of your peer group calculations include the price of the items being sold which I believe addresses the core of your concern. Other factors such as item condition, return policy, business size, and shipping options also serve to ensure you are being compared to other sellers who have businesses similar to yours.

[Anonymous]

---

@mtmonks wrote:

Trinton,

Yes, we are now "very high" in consumer electronics--BECAUSE eBay did not remove ANY of the service metrics defects from October-February 20, 2020. I called in early-mid February because our forecast for March was "very high," and I noticed that this was SOLELY because none of the defects had been removed. Again, we were eligible for this protection from the time of the Fall 2019 update, until a week ago. 

First, look at our account and you will see that all of the false SNAD reports that we made were during this period of eligibility, and that all of them are still counting against us on our current evaluation. 

---

Hi @mtmonks, thank you for the added clarification. I'll take a look at your account and pass along any concerns to the appropriate team for review. I don't have an expected turnaround time for an update on this, but will touch base with you via email when I have more information to share.

[sfc_auto_parts]

@Anonymous

Can you look into the snad that I mentioned earlier in the thread that should qualify for removal from service metrics? Thanks

[mtmonks]

Thank you. I'm curious to see what you find out. 

[earlyant-77]

If you call it "seller protections", then it should be for all sellers. Until such seller abuses the system - then they should lose that protection.

Otherwise it needs to be renamed.

The only reason that I'm not TRS anymore is simply due to not listing as much here anymore, due to time constraints. That does not make me any less 'top rated' than others, especially with no returns, no INR's, no chargebacks, no nothing for many, many years. Nor does it for most other niche hobby sellers, because we know what we sell, we know what we look for(because we buy), and we know how to describe it(because we know what WE look for in a listing), we know how to pack it(because we know how we'd like it to be packed), we know how to ship it, and we know how to answer questions(ONE small example -  a 'top rated' seller should never have their questions blocked, since that means a lack of customer service).

[dasarock]

trinton@ebay

Community Team

02-26-2020 02:25:42 PM

@sfc_auto_parts wrote:

trinton@ebay  

I've reported a couple of false snads and have already issued refunds.  How long does the reporting process take for these snads to be removed from service metrics?  

Hi @sfc_auto_parts, though I am not able to provide an expectation for the typical review time frame, you will be able to see protections applied by your next invoice. 

@Anonymous 

every time you call ebay and finally get transferred to someone who supposedly oversees service metrics, you are told that ebay can not remove anything on service metrics whether they are erroneous or not.  so in effect your response above about them being removed by the next billing cycle is NOT true unless there is something or a way of ensuring they are removed when necessary that we sellers are not being told.  the reps also state that there is no way to appeal removal of erroneous stats for service metrics.  ebay DOES NOT want to remove them because service metrics is another way for ebay to bolster higher fees.

I know that I have only 1 return in service metrics, erroneous of course … and it puts me at 39%.  without having it removed as erroneous, then if I have another return for any reason it will move the percentage to 78% or higher … THIS PUTTING ME IN DANGER OF HIGHER FEES BECAUSE I AM THEN ABOVE MY 'PEERS'.   now add in eBay's propensity to encourage returns thereby ensuring a very likely case of a 3rd return being processed and counted … AT WHICH POINT THE METRICS PERCENTAGE EXCEEDS 100% OF PEERS AND THERE WILL BE A DEFINITE INCREASE IN FEE PERCENTAGES.  this is exactly what is happening to many sellers, and the entire purpose of the service metrics … regardless of what spin ebay puts on why there is a need for service metrics.

I really would like to see a response that proves conclusively that the above is not true … not just the normal spin-off answers.  thank you.

[dasarock]

@sfc_auto_parts wrote:

trinton@ebay  

I've reported a couple of false snads and have already issued refunds.  How long does the reporting process take for these snads to be removed from service metrics?  

Hi @sfc_auto_parts, though I am not able to provide an expectation for the typical review time frame, you will be able to see protections applied by your next invoice. 

@Anonymous 

every time you call ebay and finally get transferred to someone who supposedly oversees service metrics, you are told that ebay can not remove anything on service metrics whether they are erroneous or not.  so in effect your response above about them being removed by the next billing cycle is NOT true unless there is something or a way of ensuring they are removed when necessary that we sellers are not being told.  the reps also state that there is no way to appeal removal of erroneous stats for service metrics.  ebay DOES NOT want to remove them because service metrics is another way for ebay to bolster higher fees.

I know that I have only 1 return in service metrics, erroneous of course … and it puts me at 39%.  without having it removed as erroneous, then if I have another return for any reason it will move the percentage to 78% or higher … THIS PUTTING ME IN DANGER OF HIGHER FEES BECAUSE I AM THEN ABOVE MY 'PEERS'.   now add in eBay's propensity to encourage returns thereby ensuring a very likely case of a 3rd return being processed and counted … AT WHICH POINT THE METRICS PERCENTAGE EXCEEDS 100% OF PEERS AND THERE WILL BE A DEFINITE INCREASE IN FEE PERCENTAGES.  this is exactly what is happening to many sellers, and the entire purpose of the service metrics … regardless of what spin ebay puts on why there is a need for service metrics.

I really would like to see a response that proves conclusively that the above is not true … not just the normal spin-off answers.  thank you.

[dasarock]

@Anonymous 

from what I can see and have been reading trinton, your response is pure ebay rhetoric of the erroneous inr's and returns are what placed service metrics in the high - very high levels to begin with …  what is being done to correct the system across the board for ALL  sellers who received these false/errorneous cases and were completely eligible before them?

your response that I am speaking of below ...

Hello @mtmonks, I recommend that you take another look at your Service Metrics dashboard. I can reiterate, if you are eligible for the protections we've been discussing, they will be applied. Since you are not eligible for the protections you are seeking, they will not be applied.

[Anonymous]

---

@dasarock wrote:

trinton@ebay

Community Team

02-26-2020 02:25:42 PM

@sfc_auto_parts wrote:

trinton@ebay  

I've reported a couple of false snads and have already issued refunds.  How long does the reporting process take for these snads to be removed from service metrics?  

Hi @sfc_auto_parts, though I am not able to provide an expectation for the typical review time frame, you will be able to see protections applied by your next invoice. 

@Anonymous 

every time you call ebay and finally get transferred to someone who supposedly oversees service metrics, you are told that ebay can not remove anything on service metrics whether they are erroneous or not.  so in effect your response above about them being removed by the next billing cycle is NOT true unless there is something or a way of ensuring they are removed when necessary that we sellers are not being told.  the reps also state that there is no way to appeal removal of erroneous stats for service metrics.  ebay DOES NOT want to remove them because service metrics is another way for ebay to bolster higher fees.

I know that I have only 1 return in service metrics, erroneous of course … and it puts me at 39%.  without having it removed as erroneous, then if I have another return for any reason it will move the percentage to 78% or higher … THIS PUTTING ME IN DANGER OF HIGHER FEES BECAUSE I AM THEN ABOVE MY 'PEERS'.   now add in eBay's propensity to encourage returns thereby ensuring a very likely case of a 3rd return being processed and counted … AT WHICH POINT THE METRICS PERCENTAGE EXCEEDS 100% OF PEERS AND THERE WILL BE A DEFINITE INCREASE IN FEE PERCENTAGES.  this is exactly what is happening to many sellers, and the entire purpose of the service metrics … regardless of what spin ebay puts on why there is a need for service metrics.

I really would like to see a response that proves conclusively that the above is not true … not just the normal spin-off answers.  thank you.

---

Hi @dasarock, I encourage you to review my previous responses for more details on the steps to request a service metric appeal, as this process does not involve calling Customer Service. I understand you've asked for proof of some kind, but I can only continue to repeat our policy, confirm that I've seen this work as it should on countless occasions, and encourage sellers who feel their reports were not addressed properly to contact Customer Service to discuss why you may not have been eligible. 

Additionally, you won't experience any consequences from being rated Very High in service metrics until 10 or more unique buyers have been counted in your service metrics. This is outlined in the resources I've provided. 1, 2, or 3 transactions recorded in your service metrics would have no impact on your account.

[Anonymous]

@sfc_auto_parts wrote:

trinton@ebay  

I've reported a couple of false snads and have already issued refunds.  How long does the reporting process take for these snads to be removed from service metrics?  

Hi @sfc_auto_parts, though I am not able to provide an expectation for the typical review time frame, you will be able to see protections applied by your next invoice. 

@Anonymous 

every time you call ebay and finally get transferred to someone who supposedly oversees service metrics, you are told that ebay can not remove anything on service metrics whether they are erroneous or not.  so in effect your response above about them being removed by the next billing cycle is NOT true unless there is something or a way of ensuring they are removed when necessary that we sellers are not being told.  the reps also state that there is no way to appeal removal of erroneous stats for service metrics.  ebay DOES NOT want to remove them because service metrics is another way for ebay to bolster higher fees.

I know that I have only 1 return in service metrics, erroneous of course … and it puts me at 39%.  without having it removed as erroneous, then if I have another return for any reason it will move the percentage to 78% or higher … THIS PUTTING ME IN DANGER OF HIGHER FEES BECAUSE I AM THEN ABOVE MY 'PEERS'.   now add in eBay's propensity to encourage returns thereby ensuring a very likely case of a 3rd return being processed and counted … AT WHICH POINT THE METRICS PERCENTAGE EXCEEDS 100% OF PEERS AND THERE WILL BE A DEFINITE INCREASE IN FEE PERCENTAGES.  this is exactly what is happening to many sellers, and the entire purpose of the service metrics … regardless of what spin ebay puts on why there is a need for service metrics.

I really would like to see a response that proves conclusively that the above is not true … not just the normal spin-off answers.  thank you.

[Anonymous]

---

@dasarock wrote:

@Anonymous 

from what I can see and have been reading trinton, your response is pure ebay rhetoric of the erroneous inr's and returns are what placed service metrics in the high - very high levels to begin with …  what is being done to correct the system across the board for ALL  sellers who received these false/errorneous cases and were completely eligible before them?

your response that I am speaking of below ...

Hello @mtmonks, I recommend that you take another look at your Service Metrics dashboard. I can reiterate, if you are eligible for the protections we've been discussing, they will be applied. Since you are not eligible for the protections you are seeking, they will not be applied.

---

Hi @dasarock, the item not received request referenced earlier in this discussion was for a shipment that showed delivered, but the buyer reported not receiving their item. If you take a moment to look over the resources I have provided in this thread, you will see that this type of situation will be recorded in service metrics and is not considered erroneous. 

As for my earlier response that you've quoted, I won't be discussing the details of another member's account but can state again that if a seller is eligible for protection and follow the appropriate steps to report issues, these protections will apply automatically. You have indicated that this response does not address your concerns, and while I wish we could come to an accord, it seems like I am unable to provide the type of assurance that you are looking for.

[bargainbigly]

@frugality_inc 

Apparently we're now projected to be "very high" for returns for next month. 

So, our response:

Removed all 10,000 listings from eBay today, and this will officially be our final logout. 

We're finished here. Not worth our time nor our effort. 

We refuse to pay this illegal "failure fee". I call it a "failure tax" bececause it's a tax paid by eBay sellers for eBay management's failures. 

eBay doesn't seem to understand that's it's 2020 and they don't have the power over sellers that they believe they do. 

Best of luck to the remaining sellers. 

[bargainbigly]

@orangehound 

No, we turned off free returns last week, and we de-listed all our 10,000 listings today. 

These are all from months ago. 

Regardless, not only have they refused to remove all our the false service metrics dings dating back to October, but they've conveniently also projected us to be very high for next month, thus being subject to the 55% FVF increase as of March 20.

We feel like this is nothing but a scam, so we de-listed everything and we have closed our account as of the end today. 

We refuse to willingly allow ourselves to be defrauded. 

All the best

[frugality_inc]

While I understand this is very frustrating and I'm frustrated as well stuck paying 5% now on a program that is a slew of issues, keep fighting. Keep a spreadsheet of all cases and fees charged. I will make sure eBay credits me back all fees owed that were wrongfully charged, along with all return shipping label credits due. 

Supposed to hear back from eBay regarding my most recent inquiry submitted sometime this week, based on prior outcomes, is unlikely they'll actually reach out to me. Wait and see game. Have evidence to overturn this. Is all about getting someone who actually cares and is willing to do what is right (hard to find, but they do exist). Spent nearly 3 hours on one call last week submitting cases just for consumer electronics that should've been removed, but were not. 3 hours wasted on shenanigans that should not of taken place to begin with.  

When this 'team' that reviews these cases is not able to be reached by phone or email, makes it incredibly hard to make this team understand how the removal of false cases system is not working, resulting in sellers having 'Very High' status. Pair that with average peer rates of 0.10% as shown in a prior screenshot, you have a failure of a program.

Just inspires sellers to stop caring. Results in higher prices for customers to make up for higher fees and poor customer service due to sting of not being taken care by eBay whenever a buyer submits a false SNAD return reason. = Makes the platform worse than it already is. eBay is already getting dwarfed by amzn and wmt. Trend will continue until eBay gets back to their strengths.

[sfc_auto_parts]

@Anonymous  I followed up again with customer service for my snad I've been contesting and the agent didn't see any report on the buyer.  Again I followed the steps you laid out, but still have the snad on my service metrics.  

Please get to the bottom of this because based on the information you've posted on this thread, this transaction should qualify.  

[sonoranboutique]

No the Service Metrics removal doesn't work despite what the EBay rep said. I've reported all my false INAD cases and EBay has decided in my favor on several, yet my service metrics count remains the same. I even just counted all my INAD cases to double check. No one on this forum is capable of counting their INAD cases for the past 12 months and finding that the number doesn't match their Service Metrics. Service Metrics counts ALL your INAD cases, whether you reported them and won or not.

The Service Metrics algorithm is broken, some categories have impossible "averages". Any used clothing seller knows that achieving a 1% INAD rate would be like winning the lottery (due to false returns.) Yet EBay claims 1% is the "average" for most brackets of used clothing sellers. Funny how in reading hundreds of posts on here I've never found a used clothing seller that has a "Low" or "Average" Service Metrics rating.

I even found one guy whose Service Metrics page said the "average" INAD return rate in his category was half of the manufacturer failure rate. So the manufacturer was saying the item fails X amount, and Ebay claimed people returned the items half that often. Completely impossible... the dude was drowning in his service metrics because naturally the INAD return rate is going to be higher than the manufacturer failure rate.

EBay is being really slow on this one, 90% you call in they think you're talking about the Seller Dashboard and have no idea what's going on. Most sellers I know have had to start selling elsewhere to avoid the sting of the 40% Service Metrics fee increase. At this point the busted Service Metrics system and 40% fee increase is just something you have to accept if you want to sell here.