Always check "feedback left for others" and be persistent to get negative feedback removed

[surfdog_2003]

With so much scamming on eBay lately, I have mothballed all selling for the foreseeable future. Before I go, however, I wanted to post a couple of tips for sellers - things I have just learned after being scammed. This will probably be old news for experienced sellers, but I have been a casual seller on eBay for years - selling things out of my basement that I no longer want. Perhaps this post will help someone in the future.

After recently cleaning out my baement, I found my old internet router. I was set to toss it out, but for kicks searched eBay to see if anyone still bought this brand/model. To my surprise, there were a few that sold recently for $12-18. So I put it online and it soon sold for $12.99 with free shipping. Immediately upon receiving the package, the buyer contacted me stating there were wires missing and he demanded a refund. Here is his exact message cut-and-paste:

"this thing is missing the wires. I want my money back."

I asked him what wires he was referring to since the box only contained the router and AC adapter. He responded that the AC adapter was missing.

"The power cord is missing i want to send this back for my money. I dont wanna have to leave negative feedback for u over 12 bucks but if i have to call ebay to open a case i will""

Well I knew this was a lie since I packed this myself before shipping. I told him that the black cord in the box was the AC adapter and perhaps he did not realize that (even though you would have to be a moron not to know that - but respond nicely ya know). He wrote back with more missing parts and demanding a refund, again threatening negative feedback.

"And the ethernet cord which is supposed to be included and it doesn't say its missing on your post. Are you gonna send the return postage label or do i have to call ebay for it and leave negative feedback?"

There was no ethernet cable in the box because no ethernet cable was included and wasn't listed as being included. By now I knew I was dealing with a crackpot, so I sent him my standard boilerplate response about being sorry he's not happy with the item he recieved, I would issue a complete refund, how to package it securely for shipping back, using a tracking number, etc. His response:

"What ever ill call eBay later since you don't want to send the return label and i will be sure to leave terrible feedback for you"

At this point I knew if he sent it back I would probably get a box with a rock in it, and since I had already spent $7 to ship this 9-year-old router it wasn't worth getting it back. I refunded his money and elected to let him to keep the router. After issuing the refund, he proceeded to leave me negative feedback.

One thing I learned through all this was to always check the buyers "Feedback left for others." When I first checked this buyers feedback, it looked stellar. 86 positive transactions and a 100% rating over the past year. I thought perhaps I did make a mistake and this guy was being honest with me. After I refunded the money I planned to just forget the entire thing and move on, but something still nagged me and I dug deeper into the guy's profile. There it was - over 30 feeedbacks left for others in the past year - all negative and requesting refunds. Not a positive feedback in the group. Don't make the same mistake I did and just look at a buyer's feedback percentage. This is the scam they pull and I fell for it. You have to look at the feedback they leave to get the full picture. And you should do it before the auction ends so you can cancel their bid and block them before the items sells.

As for the negative feedback, that **bleep** me off even though I am done with eBay. I knew I had this guy with all the feedback threats he made. I knew eBay's Feedback Extortion Policy and it clearly states:

The buyer isn't allowed to threaten to use Feedback or detailed seller ratings in an attempt to force a seller into providing:
--Goods or services that weren't included in the original item's description or purchase price.
--A return, refund, or replacement item.

For good measure, their example on the bottom of the policy page reads:

Examples of Feedback extortion
The buyer can't threaten to leave negative Feedback or low detailed seller ratings if the seller won't:
--Accept a return and pay for return shipping.
--Give a full or partial refund for an item.

Slam dunk, right? So I call eBay customer service, and the girl tells me that my case doesn't fit their definition of feedback extortion. Say what? She said the buyer stated that he was disatisfied because parts were missing and he wasn't requesting additional things that were not included in the auction, so it wasn't technically feedback extortion. I read her eBay's exact policy word-for-word. Everytime she tried to end it, I read it again and questioned exactly how I was supposed to interpret those words when they seem to exactly fit my situation. After several times putting me on hold to "verify information" she finally agreed to remove the negative comment. It was a small victory in an otherwise frustrating experience. If you feel you have been given an unfair negative feedback, NEVER back down and DON'T hang up with customer service until you are satisfied. Although they finally agreed to remove the feedback, the entire process of trying to prove feedback extortion with the above comments IN MY EBAY MESSAGE INBOX left me with an even more sour feeling for how eBay treats its sellers.

As I stated, I am off eBay for the long haul - maybe forever. I only wanted to take time to post this experience for the tens of thousands of honest sellers out there in hopes that it may help even one of them avoid this type of situation in the future.

[starroute-us]

Your buyer did not really  "threaten", such as give me money/freebie or I will smash your FB with a neg.

So it does not meet ebay FB extortion standards, 😞 sorry.

They just stated, ""The power cord is missing i want to send this back for my money. I dont wanna have to leave negative feedback for u over 12 bucks but if i have to call ebay to open a case i will"

It is very difficult to vet a buyers FB ahead of time.  I use buy it now, so not possible, and bad buyers can easily snipe auctions for the win.

Sellers rarely see a problem in advance.

Best offer is the only real chance a seller has to vet the FB of a potential buyer for problems.

Really bad buyers with terrible FB left for others can buy as a guest or open another account in a few minutes.:(

Sorry you had such a bad run, some categories have more problem buyers than others, anything computer/internet related is one of them.

[surfdog_2003]

Sorry. Pretty cut and dried to me. 

Feedback extortion policy

" The buyer isn't allowed to threaten to use Feedback in an attempt to force a seller into providing a return, refund, or replacement item"

[emerald40]

I agree with Star.  This is not feedback extortion.

He is not asking for anything extra or the item for free.  He just wants what was promised to him.

[savanna.dance]

@surfdog_2003 it certainly seems like implied feedback extortion to me. "I would just HATE to do X if you don't do Y."

I think I heard that dialogue on a Kojak blackmail scheme just a couple of nights ago, in fact.

[musicforyoureyes]

I know for sure that anyone who leaves an over abundance of neg feedbacks is breaking policies.  Do a 'Report a Buyer' and when 2 people do that the seller is removed.  I took a couple of weeks, but it happened and all the victims had the negs removed!

Feedback abuse has a few angles and if sellers report anyone who is abusing ebay policies reports them, it will have results, even if it's eventually.  "Live Help" is a huge waste of time. Sad, but true.  But the auto system seems to work.

Thanks for the heads-up!  

[musicforyoureyes]

I meant:"IT took a couple of weeks..."

[needleinahaystack714714]

"And the ethernet cord which is supposed to be included and it doesn't say its missing on your post. Are you gonna send the return postage label or do i have to call ebay for it and leave negative feedback?"

FB extortion.  Demanding something not included in the listing

[garmentvarmint2004]

MUSIC...

It only  took  Two  Reports  from  two  sellers   to  get a    bad buyer off   Ebay?    Sorry,  do  not believe   that.  If only  that  were true.  That  would  be  great  news   for  all  good sellers.)

[needleinahaystack714714]

Anyone who leaves an abundance of negs is violating eBay policy and will get booted off eBay, but it takes WAY more than 2 reports to get a buyer booted.

Things that will also get a buyer booted:

Excessive refunds

Excessive claims

That having been said.. Back in May I had an international buyer purchase some items and something made me look at his FB left for others and I knew I had a problem already.  Also every FB he had left (all positive) indicated that he hadn't received the item but the seller was a good seller because they refunded.  My items do not fully track to some countries.

One month to the day the buyer, who is now NARU contacts me and says that his items never arrived.  I felt a little empowered by the fact that he was already NARU, so I sent a message back to him offering to call his local police department because with 45 out of his last 50 transactions not arriving, his neighborhood obviously had a theif.  Silence.  Two days later I get 5 SNAD cases opened.  I approve the returns and I hear nothing.  

After 5 days buyer hasn't uploaded tracking so I call eBay who tell me that because it is an international buyer I have to wait a few days more.  I wait a few days more and call and now they can't close because the buyer is NARU.  I ended up having to wait for 39 days before the thing timed out and closed.  

Anyway, the good news is that I didn't get "gotten" by the little scammer, the bad news is that 45 other sellers did.

But wait.... There's more.  Last month I get 4 SNADs on Paypal for the same buyer... 4 this time because he actually purchased 2 units with one payment.  I answered the case with all the information I had including the fact that the buyer had been suspended from eBay for excessive refunds and the little scammer actually closed the case on his own the next day.

NO..... 2 reports are not going to get a scam buyer suspended.

[emerald40]

know for sure that anyone who leaves an over abundance of neg feedbacks is breaking policies.  Do a 'Report a Buyer' and when 2 people do that the seller is removed.  I took a couple of weeks, but it happened and all the victims had the negs removed!

Feedback abuse has a few angles and if sellers report anyone who is abusing ebay policies reports them, it will have results, even if it's eventually.  "Live Help" is a huge waste of time. Sad, but true.  But the auto system seems to work.

Thanks for the heads-up!  

__________________________________________

According to the OP this buyer left 30 negatives before buying from him.  And nothing has happened to him.

[*eponymous*]

"The power cord is missing i want to send this back for my money. I dont wanna have to leave negative feedback for u over 12 bucks but if i have to call ebay to open a case i will""

That sure sounds like feedback extortion!

You do know that all sellers are required to pay return shipping on SNAD claims, right?  It appears the buyer went off the deep end when he found out the router was outdated and of no use to him; and then you lectured him about your requirements for the buyer to return the item...on his own dime.

Sure, he should have checked usability before buying, but you need to consider those things when selling dated electronics items.

[sin-n-dex]

Experienced seller posting (7000+ transactions)

It doesn't matter what their feedback for others is if they already bought and paid for it. Once they pay for it, you need to ship or take a defect. I did not ship to a scammer and got the FB removed because he's on my BBL list. Because I did not ship, he left some very terrible feedback, words like "liar", "disgusting", "manipulative".

So if the scammer was not on my BBL... to avoid the negative feedback might have been worth losing the two items I paid less than $5 for. I prefer not to even bother to look at feedback unless I get a strange question and feel the need to check them out ahead of time. A question that immediate gets a block is "do I get tracking with this item?" I used to answer and tell them they do (because the item is worth $50, um yeah, of course you do), but when none of these customers that wanted to know about tracking ever bought, my brain said "scammer looking for a mark".

Your advice is good, but cannot be applied under every sales scenario unless the seller wants to get defects and bad feedback for "not performing" (my scammers words to describe my refusal to ship).

Cheers, C.

[sin-n-dex]

I want to add an addendum....

Whenever I get a problem that's too much for me to handle (the beginning of an issue), I very often make that call to CSR, get the call number and agents name, get notes made. Advice is variable, I wouldn't say to always take the CSR's advice, and in this case it works for getting feedback removed, the seller would still have to refund (but you can be a pain and make him return something. If I think someone is scamming for a cheap item, I always make them return it, even on my dime, because I know they really want to keep it for free).

Having insight into the beginning of a problem, so long as you agree to comply with eBay's rules, is very helpful for when the problem blows up and the buyer becomes unreasonable.

And lastly, since CSR can read everything you write to your buyer, do remember what you say is not always for their benefit, but for the benefit of the CSR reading to see that you did your best as a seller and are dealing with an unreasonable buyer. I've had my share of fruitcakes over the years and the big issue became a non issue because I was proactive in solving my buyer problems.

Cheers, C.

[moondogblues]

I agree with Star.  This is not feedback extortion.

He is not asking for anything extra or the item for free.  He just wants what was promised to him.

I'm lost.  The OP sent everything that was promised.  And that is clear cut extortion in my book.  IF YOU DON'T DO THIS, I WILL DO THIS.

And he did ask for money back.