Almost got scammed....

[qui-goncain]

Beware This person had me send a package to the following address: 

xxxx NW xxth St Ste 100
Miami / Doral , FL 33198
United States

DO NOT ship to this address. I did a Google search on this address, and it is apparently a known "forwarding" company that repackages merchandise and reships it internationally without the sellers knowledge.  It is called BM Cargo. This firm is used by eBay buyers in Central America to pretend they have a US address so they can buy items from US eBay sellers that had no intention of shipping their item outside the US. This firm will repackage your item to try and reduce the weight so they can save on shipping charges to the buyer in Central America. As part of this repackaging process, they will lose key accessories for your item. The buyer in Central America will receive an item without those accessories and attempt to blame the US seller, who had no idea they were sending their item to a third party for repackaging and shipment outside the US. This firm will then support the Central American buyer in blaming the US seller for an incomplete shipment and deny they repackaged the item from the original packaging. If you watch your tracking information, you will notice the zip code change when it is rerouted to what is provided to Ebay by the seller.  The buyer will then claim the package was delivered, but not to the address provided, and then attempt to file a claim. I print my labels using Ebay/USPS, so there is no discrpancy. This is the second time this has happened to me. I had to fight it for months last time and was awared my lost monies, but not my lost time. Avoid at all costs.

Thankfully I caught it in time (I hope) and reported it to both Ebay and PayPal. I will update if anything changes with the outcome. 

[a_c_green]

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@sam9876 wrote:

I ship to forwarding companies several times every week and have never had a problem.

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Me, neither; however, there is a little bit more to this specific situation that I have uncovered, so listen up, everyone, please.

The Doral reshippers are indeed widely known and I ship to their buyers regularly, all the time, with zero problems. However, the OP has come across something that I hadn't noticed before: the final delivery ZIP as shown in tracking does seem to waver between 33198 (as seen in the payment address from the buyer) and 33122, where it is sometimes shown as delivered.

USPS confirms that both 33198 and 33122 serve Miami and Doral addresses (where Miami is the "recommended" name but Doral is a "recognized" name for the same area). I picked four recent shipments of mine that went there, and checked the tracking results for each:

Ship Date  Tracking Number         Delivery ZIP
---------  ----------------------  ------------
6/20/2018  9400109699937711513994    33198
7/5/2018   9400109699938604326370    33122
8/22/2018  9400109699937868202956    33198
8/29/2018  9400109699938743460072    33122

Again, every outbound package I sent had the same 33198 address, but as the OP described, the tracking showed a delivery to 33122 instead, which would be an instant fail for the seller if an Item Not Received dispute was filed. In my case, no problem occurred and the buyer was happy each time.

Now, the main dispute in the OP's case seems more like a problem with missing parts, and a Significantly Not As Described dispute instead, but in any case, it sounds like an INR dispute would succeed as well. The root problem with the mysterious change in ZIP codes is something that the local PO down there might have to explain. The tracking as shown is not helpful to any eBay seller facing a nondelivery claim.

@Anonymous, is this something you've seen before?

[qui-goncain]

This guy gets it. Thank you!

[lymanbargainden]

Huh, you're right. I just took a look at mine and there are a few with different zips. I'm still fairly sure buyer loses protection if they reroute the package.

[marjen7102]

You know what paranoid sellers are yet another reason that I have limited my buying on eBay. Whether it be a shipping company or a private individual, sellers always see a scam around every corner.

99% of all buyers are honest buyers who just want to have a decent purchase experience.

When buyers get accused of scamming constantly what do you suppose that does? It puts the idea in their head to scam, or abandon eBay all together.

[qui-goncain]

To all:

I'm just trying to protect the seller and buyer community by and large. I have experience in this arena, and I am sharing that experience in an effort to protect others. If you chose to read into it further, that is completely on you. 

The address provided to warn everyone not to ship to has been officially altered by ebay. Apparently protecting the people committing fraud is more important the sharing accurate information. 

19 years of selling, and I've never had as many problems as I have in the last year. This community is heading in the wrong direction, and now I see why.

Good day all.

[qui-goncain]

You might find this article interesting:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/may/21/ebay-accused-failing-sellers-buyers-manipulate-system-...

[qui-goncain]

...and now I am getting threatening "Warning" messages from others...Unreal.

[dtexley3]

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@a_c_green wrote:

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@sam9876 wrote:

I ship to forwarding companies several times every week and have never had a problem.

---

Now, the main dispute in the OP's case seems more like a problem with missing parts, and a Significantly Not As Described dispute instead, but in any case, it sounds like an INR dispute would succeed as well. The root problem with the mysterious change in ZIP codes is something that the local PO down there might have to explain. The tracking as shown is not helpful to any eBay seller facing a nondelivery claim.

@Anonymous, is this something you've seen before?

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@Anonymous  This is also an issue with the reshipper in Portland, Oregon.  I filed a complaint with USPS about a package sent to the forwarding service not showing as delivered and it was quickly resolved.  HOWEVER, the Postmaster included a long email explaining about the reshipper and how they were so large their shipping center had MULITPLE ZIPCODES.   This is a concern for an INR because the buyer may use the business office address as the shipping address, but the receiving dept may be in a nearby location with a different zipcode.

This isn't a frequent problem but as sellers we have NO CONTROL over the destination ZIP changing simply because the receving center is in a different ZIP from the business office.

[missjen831]

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@atikovi wrote:

You have been an Ebay member 15 years and this is the first time you have encountered a forwarder? FYI, many buyers from out of the country use them since many sellers don't ship out of the USA. If I remember, there is no Paypal buyer protection once the item is forwarded so you shouldn't worry about sending it.

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@atikovi The buyer has full PayPal buyer protection once the item is forwarded.  

[atikovi]

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@missjen831 wrote:

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@atikovi wrote:

You have been an Ebay member 15 years and this is the first time you have encountered a forwarder? FYI, many buyers from out of the country use them since many sellers don't ship out of the USA. If I remember, there is no Paypal buyer protection once the item is forwarded so you shouldn't worry about sending it.

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@atikovi The buyer has full PayPal buyer protection once the item is forwarded.  

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So where @southern*sweet*tea wrote: On Ebay, a buyer loses ALL protection when they use a forwarder. That doesn't apply?

[kensgiftshop]

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@qui-goncain wrote:

Beware This person had me send a package to the following address: 

xxxx NW xxth St Ste 100
Miami / Doral , FL 33198
United States

---

Not all buyers that use that reshipper is a scammer.

I've sent a few packages through them and haven't had any problems.

[kensgiftshop]

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@qui-goncain wrote:

It matters when the package is rerouted and USPS cannot confirm the delivery. The delivery address is somehow changed to just a zip code with no actual delivery street address when researching the tracking information. They buyer then claims he didn't get it, when he was the one that had it forwarded. 

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It doesn't get rerouted, it gets delivered to that address and scanned as delivered.

As long as it gets to that address, you're good.

[kensgiftshop]

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@qui-goncain wrote:

My point was I was shipping a US domestic only product to a forwarding company unknowingly, who repackaded the product for a buyer, who doesn't live in the US, who claimed he didn't get it

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Once the package is scanned as delivered to the reshipper, buyer shouldn't be able to file an INR, because it has been delivered to the address they used at checkout.

If the buyer didn't get the item after reshipper shipped it, that's between the buyer and reshipper.

[southern*sweet*tea]

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@atikovi wrote:

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@missjen831 wrote:

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@atikovi wrote:

You have been an Ebay member 15 years and this is the first time you have encountered a forwarder? FYI, many buyers from out of the country use them since many sellers don't ship out of the USA. If I remember, there is no Paypal buyer protection once the item is forwarded so you shouldn't worry about sending it.

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@atikovi The buyer has full PayPal buyer protection once the item is forwarded.  

---

So where @southern*sweet*tea wrote: On Ebay, a buyer loses ALL protection when they use a forwarder. That doesn't apply?

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Policies

Ebay

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy...

Not covered

• Buyer remorse or any reason other than not receiving an item or receiving an item that isn’t as described in the listing (see the seller’s return policy for return options)
• Items damaged during local pickup
• Local pickup items that were not collected by, or on behalf of, the buyer
• Items not delivered, damaged during collection, or damaged during shipment when the buyer arranges pick-up or shipping of the item (for instance, the buyer arranges freight)
• Duplicate claims through other resolution methods
• Items shipped to another address after original delivery
• Vehicles (see eBay Vehicle Protection), Real Estate, Websites & Business for Sale, Classified Ads, services, Digital Content, Intangible Goods, and some Business Equipment categories (see eBay Business Equipment Purchase Protection)
• Items sold through Sotheby's

Paypal

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#purchase-protection

Item Not Received claims

Your claim will not qualify for a refund under PayPal’s Purchase Protection program for an Item Not Received claim, if:

• You collect the item in person, or arrange for it to be collected on your behalf, including if you use PayPal in a seller’s store location, or
• PayPal has adequate proof from the seller indicating that the item was delivered or order was fulfilled.

INR would be the only protection sellers would have as long as they ship to the Paypal address. Paypal makes no provisions for reshipping - items shipped to another address after original delivery - like Ebay does.  Paypal does, however, require the buyer to pay for return shipping no matter the reason for return.

[missjen831]

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@atikovi wrote:

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@missjen831 wrote:

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@atikovi wrote:

You have been an Ebay member 15 years and this is the first time you have encountered a forwarder? FYI, many buyers from out of the country use them since many sellers don't ship out of the USA. If I remember, there is no Paypal buyer protection once the item is forwarded so you shouldn't worry about sending it.

---

@atikovi The buyer has full PayPal buyer protection once the item is forwarded.  

---

So where @southern*sweet*tea wrote: On Ebay, a buyer loses ALL protection when they use a forwarder. That doesn't apply?

---

eBay and PayPal have separate polices. Why wouldn’t what she said about eBay apply? You specifically said PayPal, which why is said PayPal still fully protects the buyer. 

And on eBay, a buyer doesn’t lose all protection when they use a forwarder. They are still covered on a INR until the tracking shows delivery to the zip code in the order details.