Returns and Dispute

[hotdeals269]

Hi I have been selling for a while now and I had sold an item and the person wanted a refund said it was not as described .......he never tried to reach out to me he had 0 feedback and mind you he did not ask for a refund right away and never reached out to me at all  .... the item was fine and as described .... so I had a label sent so he could send it back and he never did so e-bay said wait the 15 days and if it is not sent back I would not have to refund him ...... well that is what happened and then the guy opened a dispute through his bank so now I had to answer the dispute and I did e-bay said it could take a while so in the mean time I would call to ask about it and they always said still nothing but don't worry its in your favor .....this started in March 2021 so now its June 2021 and they have taken the money plus a dispute fee from me and said the bank said I had to refund the guy ...... There is no e-bay protection here they basically told me to bad they can't do anything... if this is not customer fraud they what is... I have been a top seller 100 feedback I take pride in what I do and I always do my best to work with my customers .... This has sickened me I am out my money and my item ..... I took all my auctions down.... if this is how they help and treat there sellers they I am out ..... I have sold a lot of things on here and e-bay don't give a **bleep** and are liars ......So I can go on and win auctions then say it was not as described and ask for a refund they go through my bank and keep the item and money ...... Oh they are going to look in to this person and suspend him LOL.... he has 0 feed back  what a big help

[pikabo-icu]

Not much I can say.. Only I'm sorry this happened to you..

You are in good company- sadly far too many good sellers have experienced the same thing..

Again, I'm really sorry.. You can only do the very best you can do.. 

The world has a lot of bad people in it- hopefully you don't get another for a LONG, LONG time.. 

[rebell45]

I took all my auctions down.... if this is how they help and treat there sellers they I am out ....

I don't blame you one bit. I'd suggest your throw a Mail Fraud case at the buyer just for kicks.  Hopefully you still have their shipping/contact info. 

[bbravo65]

...you must be in Manage Payment...if you are still with PayPal, it won't happen, PayPal will force the buyer to return your item (I'm speaking from my own experience)...this is how PayPal is on an "upper hand" compares to Manage Payment...and while advertised for MP, eBay hid this flaw...

...I also disagree with the extra $20 fee when eBay decided that you lost your case over dispute charged when in reality, you have no supports at all from both eBay and its partner, the MP...I feel eBay scams sellers for this because obviously, sellers will lose their fights against credit cards charged back or transaction disputes...100% losers for sure...and therefore, each case will stack up $20...how convenience is that for legally robbery...

...I feel your pain...sending my empathy to you...I hope I could do more...better be strong my dear...!!!

[dentalrprtek2012]

Been there with a 3800.00 sale. Buyer first claimed damaged in shipping after 6 weeks then when that did not work went to cc company and told them not as described. eBay assured me they would send all info to cc company and I would be ok. No answers for weeks then next thing I know they went in my account took 3800.00 gave a full refund and told me to dispute the outcome when I did they said I can’t dispute it. I claimed seller protection and they say no with no explanation and it would be up to me to get the buyer to return and if they did I would have to pay for return shipping. eBay is all about the buyers who can do and say whatever they want and get a refund and they don’t care about the sellers. Good luck with this they now don’t even respond to email.

[eleanor*rigby]

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@bbravo65 wrote:

...you must be in Manage Payment...if you are still with PayPal, it won't happen, PayPal will force the buyer to return your item (I'm speaking from my own experience)...this is how PayPal is on an "upper hand" compares to Manage Payment...and while advertised for MP, eBay hid this flaw...

The buyer didn't file a PayPal dispute. He went right to a chargeback with his financial institution. The OP's complaint has nothing to do with whether s/he is using Managed Payments or PayPal. 

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@bbravo65 wrote:

...I also disagree with the extra $20 fee when eBay decided that you lost your case over dispute charged when in reality, you have no supports at all from both eBay and its partner, the MP.

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PayPal also charges a $20  fee for credit-card chargebacks. Had the OP still been using PayPal for payment processing, the outcome would have been exactly the same.

The adjudication of a credit-card chargeback is up to the credit card company. eBay does not make the decision but is bound by the outcome. The same would be true if the OP were still using PayPal.

[bbravo65]

...PP is not a bank, its function is as similar as MP, processing money...

...if buyers dispute their transaction on eBay through their financial institutions (bank) with PP as the money processor, their banks will send a request to PP since PP processed the money...PP will look into the dispute, notify the sellers to verify any needed information...for INR case, PP will verify the delivery records through USPS...for INAD, PP will force buyers to return the item before agreed with their banks to issue the refund...must I repeat that I am speaking from my own experience...???

...the $20 fee only being charged if sellers didn't cooperate with PP in providing their information...with MP, sellers are definitely will lose their fights, money, merchandises, and that $20 because eBay and its partner MP will not support sellers as will not provide steps by steps how to dispute against buyer's disputes...

...of course, eBay always shifts the responsibility to another...there were some posters posted about how they lost their fights over transaction disputes as MP didn't recognized the sellers here, they only know eBay...and for the $20 fee, it was collected by eBay, not MP...

[dentalrprtek2012]

The point about all of this is that Ebay allows the buyers that the provide to us to lie/commit fraud and just be dishonest and walk all over the sellers and NOTHING is done. They do not care about any seller issues and Seller Protection is a complete fraud as well. There are messages between my self and the buyer that I offered to send repair part, I offered to pay to have the part installed I did everything right Ebay did not defend me with the credit card company because if they did they would provide that information.  What they do lock your account right away to protect Ebay 

[retailtechoutlet]

eBay should cover the amount as part of seller protection. Please remind the CSR's about their own policies found at: 

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/getting-paid/handling-payment-disputes?id=4799 

You have provided proof of delivery, which includes all of the following:

• Tracking number provided by the shipping company (uploaded by the date in the payment dispute notification)
• A delivery status of "delivered"
• Date of delivery
• Recipient's address, matching the address on the order (including the city, county, zip code or international equivalent)
• Proof of signature confirmation if an order has a total cost (including shipping and taxes) of $750 or more, uploaded as an image while contesting the payment dispute

[monster-deals]

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@hotdeals269 wrote:

if this is how they help and treat there sellers 

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Yes, ebay is ripe with fraud, faulty returns and piles of other problems.

This is what they want and have been operating this way for several years now.

Ebay is hostile for new or small time sellers. The only way to make the scams worth your time is to make it up in volume.

[reda3615]

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@eleanor*rigby wrote:

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@bbravo65 wrote:

...you must be in Manage Payment...if you are still with PayPal, it won't happen, PayPal will force the buyer to return your item (I'm speaking from my own experience)...this is how PayPal is on an "upper hand" compares to Manage Payment...and while advertised for MP, eBay hid this flaw...

The buyer didn't file a PayPal dispute. He went right to a chargeback with his financial institution. 

The OP's complaint has nothing to do with whether s/he is using Managed Payments or PayPal. 

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That's intriguing. Wondering @eleanor*rigby what happens if the OP is using Managed Payments, not PayPal, and the buyer did file a PayPal dispute, and not went right to a chargeback with his financial institution.

[eleanor*rigby]

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@reda3615 wrote:

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That's intriguing. Wondering @eleanor*rigby what happens if the OP is using Managed Payments, not PayPal, and the buyer did file a PayPal dispute, and not went right to a chargeback with his financial institution.

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@reda3615 

What's intriguing about it?

Which payment processor the OP is using has NOTHING to do with buyer protection, whether they file a dispute through eBay or PayPal or their credit card issuing bank. All buyer protections are exactly the same, no matter which payment processor the OP is using. Whether sellers are using Managed Payments does not affect buyers AT ALL.

If a buyer would have filed a PayPal dispute, it would have been handled the same way PayPal disputes have ALWAYS been handled. Any buyer who uses PayPal ANYWHERE IN THE UNIVERSE has the same buyer protection across the board. I can file the same dispute against the little online produce vendor in my town as I can against walmart.com.

I sure wish sellers would understand the difference between sellers' payment processors for payouts and buyers' payment methods.

If you're asking how PayPal would have responded specifically to the OP's transaction issues with his/her buyer, I have no idea. I found the original post to be difficult to decipher and impossible to untangle, with the lack of sentence structure, no paragraphs, convoluted train of thought, and, to top it off, the bizarre typing of what I can only assume was meant to be an ellipsis almost made my head explode. I also questioned the veracity of some of the OP's statements. In short, I'm not interested enough in the original post to go back and read it again.

[downunder-61]

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@retailtechoutlet wrote:

eBay should cover the amount as part of seller protection. Please remind the CSR's about their own policies found at: 

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/getting-paid/handling-payment-disputes?id=4799 

You have provided proof of delivery, which includes all of the following:

• Tracking number provided by the shipping company (uploaded by the date in the payment dispute notification)
• A delivery status of "delivered"
• Date of delivery
• Recipient's address, matching the address on the order (including the city, county, zip code or international equivalent)
• Proof of signature confirmation if an order has a total cost (including shipping and taxes) of $750 or more, uploaded as an image while contesting the payment dispute

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Thank you!! This is my biggest beef.

Once upon a time if a seller proved the above eBay would cover seller for losses out of their own kitty - since the introduction of MBG it appears they no longer want to do this and one must ask if they have made it harder to do because they have made it so much easier for the buyer to scam with the wonderful returns program.

No seller doing the right thing should be out of pocket - time for eBay to front up again and protect us against ANY claim made erroneously so long as we are given the opportunity to provide proof of following guidelines. It is all so hard now, many sellers just give up and cop the loss.

[reda3615]

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@eleanor*rigby wrote:

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@reda3615 wrote:

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@eleanor*rigby wrote:

The buyer didn't file a PayPal dispute. He went right to a chargeback with his financial institution. 

The OP's complaint has nothing to do with whether s/he is using Managed Payments or PayPal. 

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That's intriguing. Wondering @eleanor*rigby what happens if the OP is using Managed Payments, not PayPal

, and the buyer did file a PayPal dispute, and not went right to a chargeback with his financial institution.

---

What's intriguing about it?

Which payment processor the OP is using has NOTHING to do with buyer protection, whether they file a dispute through eBay or PayPal or their credit card issuing bank. All buyer protections are exactly the same, no matter which payment processor the OP is using. Whether sellers are using Managed Payments does not affect buyers AT ALL.

If a buyer would have filed a PayPal dispute, it would have been handled the same way PayPal disputes have ALWAYS been handled. Any buyer who uses PayPal ANYWHERE IN THE UNIVERSE has the same buyer protection across the board. I can file the same dispute against the little online produce vendor in my town as I can against walmart.com.

I sure wish sellers would understand the difference between sellers' payment processors for payouts and buyers' payment methods.

If you're asking how PayPal would have responded specifically to the OP's transaction issues with his/her buyer, I have no idea. I found the original post to be difficult to decipher and impossible to untangle, with the lack of sentence structure, no paragraphs, convoluted train of thought, and, to top it off, the bizarre typing of what I can only assume was meant to be an ellipsis almost made my head explode. I also questioned the veracity of some of the OP's statements. In short, I'm not interested enough in the original post to go back and read it again.

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If the payments processor is Managed Payments, and the buyer filed a return at PayPal:

- The actual payee is eBay.

- The actual seller gets a Payment Dispute with only 2 options:

-- Refund, or

-- Challenge eBay forces the refund and a $20 fee.

- The item will not be returned.

If the payments processor is PayPal, and the buyer filed a return at PayPal:

- The actual payee is the actual seller.

- The item must be returned.

[downunder-61]

While I agree, (to the above) we sellers and eBay are unable to STOP a buyer from approaching their financial institution for a chargeback at any time - even if all Paypal and eBay claims are denied - totally out of any one else's hands except the buyer and their bank.

So, all the rules and reg's and hyperbole about eBays protection for us means zilch when a chargeback is initiated and I have yet to hear of a bank who did not side with their customer.