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Managed Payments is more expensive than Paypal for Fashion Powerseller

I am a one man operation fashion powerseller having sold over 65,000 items the past 6 years. I have seen nearly an increase of 25-50% in eBay listing fees over that period of time. Here are some of the things I have noticed eBay doing to there Top Rated Sellers.....

 

Eliminating 20% final value fee discounts (First it was reduced to 10% then only given to sellers who offered free returns, personally free returns does not increase traffic for me, my buyers prefer a lower price over free returns). I was paying eBay 7.2% in final value fees when I started my business. Now it's over 10%. If you use promoted listings which I will talk more about below it is significantly higher. 

 

Increasing metrics and eliminating benefits / discounts if strict metrics are not met. I have always been in the top tier of the metric structure but there have been cases where during my peak season I may be near a category cutoff. Not a big deal, but when 95% of those cases are incorrectly filed by a customer (for example calling an item "not authentic" when I purchased it directly from the retailer myself is ludacris). 

 

The eBay / Paypal relationship went out in blowout fashion with Paypal keeping all cancelled / returned item processing fees costing me thousands in a short period of time. Thanks for that! 

 

Stating "most sellers" will see a savings with managed payments is false advertising in my opinion, I do not know anyone who is seeing a savings, the final value fee now includes the total purchase price which is cost of the item, shipping paid and taxes. Due to the final value fees on the tax your total percentage can vary greatly depending on the state you sold that item too. Several southern states have very high sales taxes over 9%. Paying a final value fee on sales taxes means that I will easily pay an additional $5,000-$10,000 a year in final value fees a 5-10% increase.  They also top that off with a .30 per transaction fee easily topping Paypal fees by 1-2% on average. 

 

Managed payment sellers now pay a flat rate international final value fee of 1.65% on top of the .30 transaction fee and the normal final value fee for your category which for fashion with my eBay store is 9%.

 

The implementation of the promoting listing tool is not good for eBay sellers. I have used the promoted listing tool but have since stopped my participation with that. Yes, you do get more sales but why make less money just to sell something faster? I'd rather get top dollar for my merchandise as its getting harder and harder to source that merchandise these days. Or spend my time filling the gaps in eBay and find merchandise no sellers or few sellers have and became ranked in those categories of items. I have found myself working harder and harder for less margin. In my opinion, eBay should focus on promoting listings of its top rated sellers for free as a benefit for top performers.  

 

I very much dislike the way final value fees are stated on the customer order details. These fees need to be itemized. Instead of one grouped "final value fee". 

 

For example current fees looks like this: 

 

Final Value Fee
Applies to Total Amount of the Sale Final amount: $85.54.
Final Value Fee
Per order fixed fee
-$9.84
-$0.30
Subtotal: -$10.14
Total fees: -$10.14

 

When they should look like this with each fee itemized..... This would be for my fashion category and eBay store level.....

 

Final value fee for category (dollar amount and 9% fashion final value fee) 

Final value fee transaction charge and processing fee 2.7%, dollar amount and flat service charge of .30

Final value fee on international sale if applicable (dollar amount and 1.65%) 

Final value fee on taxes (dollar amount and percentage for that customers state) 

Promoted listing fee if applicable (dollar amount and percentage promoted fee paid)

 

With the current system I don't think there is even a breakdown of promoted listing fees from final value fees so you have a hard time knowing which orders sold via promoting listings and how much you paid for promoting listings for that order. 

 

I don't know about you but I am still getting used to having my money tied up in ACH processing for several business days. I ran my business on tight cash flow with Paypal, so not having funds now means I currently carry a balance on some of my credit lines thus costing me more money in interest payments. Whereas before I never carried a balance or had to pay interest. I am still trying to adjust my business to the new payout schedule and it has been quite a headache.

 

Anyways just some thoughts feel free to provide input or suggestions......

 

 

 

Message 1 of 35
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Managed Payments is more expensive than Paypal for Fashion Powerseller

I totally agree with everything so stated above. Managed Payments is a bust. As a seller I have noticed higher fees as well. One thing I think should be mentioned is the fact that Ebay groups 14k SOLID GOLD jewelry in with the same category as 14k PLATED or OVER. Over what is my question.

This makes a Top Rated high quality store look cheap & shoddy. We definitely need a separate category for the true Fine Jewelry. As a jewelry professional anything that is NOT TRUE SOLID Gold should be considered Fashion Jewelry or if a high content of Sterling Silver in the Sterling Silver category.

Fees have gone up considerably. My Accountant in doing my taxes last year asked why I have even bothered to sell on Ebay for all the fees they charge vs. the amount of money I made.

Something needs to be done & quick. Unfortunately it falls on deaf ears with Ebay!

Message 2 of 35
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Managed Payments is more expensive than Paypal for Fashion Powerseller


@brunosfinejewelry wrote:

I totally agree with everything so stated above. Managed Payments is a bust. As a seller I have noticed higher fees as well. One thing I think should be mentioned is the fact that Ebay groups 14k SOLID GOLD jewelry in with the same category as 14k PLATED or OVER. Over what is my question.

This makes a Top Rated high quality store look cheap & shoddy. We definitely need a separate category for the true Fine Jewelry. As a jewelry professional anything that is NOT TRUE SOLID Gold should be considered Fashion Jewelry or if a high content of Sterling Silver in the Sterling Silver category.

Fees have gone up considerably. My Accountant in doing my taxes last year asked why I have even bothered to sell on Ebay for all the fees they charge vs. the amount of money I made.

Something needs to be done & quick. Unfortunately it falls on deaf ears with Ebay!


I agree with you, brunosfinejewelry, 100%! This is one of the -several - reasons why I refuse to sign up for Managed Payments, and also, why I am not listing here more valuable items for sale, currently. 

 

My remaining inventory listed on eBay is a fraction of the thousands of listings I gave this site over the past 22 yrs, and the rest was moved off. To me, it seems that instead of things getting better and better, they got worse and worse as the years went by. The most recent Seller Update (Fall 2020) was not as bad and seller-unfriendly as several previous ones were, but to me, it only means one of two things,

 

(a) we are in the eye of a hurricane (meaning, while currently nothing more has been added to the already impressive list of restrictions and additional fees, somehow this is the calm before the storm hits - and the next Seller Update could outperform all previous ones); or

 

(b) that they finally ran out of aspects of OUR businesses that they can completely take over, after years of successfully taking over all of them (shipping, returns, listing duration, payments and now the automated return process). 

 

Good luck to you, mon ami

PW🐿

Message 3 of 35
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Managed Payments is more expensive than Paypal for Fashion Powerseller

That is a huge fee increase, while I don't sell in your category, I have not experienced that high of an increase overall and I'm very sorry that you have.

 

The discount you lost on the TRS discount was a hard pill to swallow for many sellers.  Ebay cut it in half in order to fund the promoted listing credits offered on certain store levels.  At least that is what they said.

 

In MP however, the discount gets a little bit of a boost, not another decline.  Pre-MP the discount is calculated on the FVF on the product only on domestic sales.  In MP the TRS discount is calculated on the FVF for the product, shipping, sales tax and on the money processing fee since it is all rolled into one number.  So that is a plus for those in MP.  

 

Your choice to not have all your listings qualify for TRSP is a choice.  One I made for myself too a long time ago.  I am however reconsidering it now that I'm in MP because of the little boost in its value.

 

All things go up over the years as costs for any given company increases.  Ebay nor any other company is likely to survive if they were to keep all their costs to sellers the same as they were 15+ years ago.  And their employees would absolutely hate having their pay kept at the rate they were paid 15 years ago.  

 

The Service Metrics is a horrible program in my opinion.  I have fought that policy since the day it was announced.  I personally think it is the single worse program Ebay has brought to the site in the 20 years I've been here.  I think it is unnecessarily punitive and simply unfair.  I completely agree with you on this point.

 

Ebay sold PP off in 2015.  PP didn't start keeping the entire fees even when we refund until late last year, 2019.  I'm not sure how that equals an Ebay issue.  That is a money processing issue with PP and their rules.  That has nothing to do with Ebay.

 

While the FVF charged in MP does include a FVF on sales tax, it is important to keep in mind that the sales tax is usually no more than 10% of the sale.  So that means 90% of the sale is not getting a fee increase, in fact it is a reduction of 0.55%.  Not a lot, but it does help to offset the new FVF on sales tax that we aren't use to.  It is likely that this will be more of a neutral FVF change for most sellers.  Also keep in mind that the Simplified fee contains the money processing fee which we have always paid a fee to PP for processing money for sales tax.  So if your rate is 11.5% in MP, 2.9% of that is a fee we are all use to, so the increase on the sales tax only portion of the fees is about 8.6% on the 10% or less that is sales tax on the transaction.

 

This one regarding the international fee in MP has me confused as to why so many sellers are saying this is new.  It is not.  It is slightly higher than what we paid in PP [1.50%], but it is not new.  We have always paid an increased rate for international buyers paying for an item even when they have a US ship to address.  The fee is driven by where the buyer's account is set up.  It ALWAYS has been.  So while the MP fee is slightly higher [0.15%], it is not a new fee for any seller on Ebay unless they have never had an international buyer purchase from them.

 

If you are having money tied up in the ACH system for several days, that is NOT a fault of MP, that would be the banking system and possibly the structure of the bank you are having your money sent to.  So the place to start your journey to figure out why is directly with your bank.  MP has no control over a transfer once they release it.   Many sellers have reported significant changes in how fast they receive transfers from MP when they bank with a more main stream large bank.  For example, I bank with Bank of America.  When MP releases the transfer to me, I have the deposit in my bank in less than 24 hours.  

 

I hope things improve for you very soon.


mam98031  •  Volunteer Community Member
Message 4 of 35
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Managed Payments is more expensive than Paypal for Fashion Powerseller

I agree that the service metrics is the worst thing e-bay has ever had. I'm a seller for 21 years ,12,500 postive feedbacks and no negatives. Worked very hard to get to this point, But having 7 returns has put me in the very high range and now paying an extra 5 per cent, In 4 of these cases the buyer closed the return. The rest were closed by e-bay in my favor, I tried to appeal and they say there is no appeal , called their

customer and got a supervisor and they said they would transfer me to the dept. that handled appeals, talked almost one hour ,the person said yes I'm right, and would remove these cases, then a week later, I get an e-mail saying that there is no appeal and the cases would stand. Example of one case was a buyer wanted me to ship to an address not listed ,I said I wouldn't do that, to protect us both, so it was shipped and he files,the item was damaged, customer service ruled in my favor because he didn't furnish any info. But, I was still charged in my service metrics, this is illegal, not to have an appeal process. I hope that a class suite can be filed to stop this unfair practice.

Message 5 of 35
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Managed Payments is more expensive than Paypal for Fashion Powerseller

Please give us a link to what law eBay is breaking. And I'm sure you read and agreed to eBay's User Agreement that their decisions are final. This is their website, as you know.

Message 6 of 35
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Managed Payments is more expensive than Paypal for Fashion Powerseller


@mike2deals wrote:

I agree that the service metrics is the worst thing e-bay has ever had. I'm a seller for 21 years ,12,500 postive feedbacks and no negatives. Worked very hard to get to this point, But having 7 returns has put me in the very high range and now paying an extra 5 per cent, In 4 of these cases the buyer closed the return. The rest were closed by e-bay in my favor, I tried to appeal and they say there is no appeal , called their

customer and got a supervisor and they said they would transfer me to the dept. that handled appeals, talked almost one hour ,the person said yes I'm right, and would remove these cases, then a week later, I get an e-mail saying that there is no appeal and the cases would stand. Example of one case was a buyer wanted me to ship to an address not listed ,I said I wouldn't do that, to protect us both, so it was shipped and he files,the item was damaged, customer service ruled in my favor because he didn't furnish any info. But, I was still charged in my service metrics, this is illegal, not to have an appeal process. I hope that a class suite can be filed to stop this unfair practice.


I have always been firmly against the Service Metrics since the day Ebay introduced it and I've been pretty vocal about it too.  But please explain or give me more details to how it is illegal, what law or laws it breaches and how it breaches some law as an "unfair practice".  I would like to understand this a bit better.


mam98031  •  Volunteer Community Member
Message 7 of 35
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Managed Payments is more expensive than Paypal for Fashion Powerseller

cmon sheeple - bleat all you want, but eBay is the only game in town (really) - if they decide to take 99% there will still be sellers hawking their wares. And if you decide to start your own eBay, I will beat a path to your doorstep.

 

Message 8 of 35
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Managed Payments is more expensive than Paypal for Fashion Powerseller

I was forced into managed payments because I had 2 months of higher than normal sales, so their algorithm forced me in , while my friends do not have to sign up.    I just sold an item for $2400  and the fees are $319.37 !!! WTH !!!!  and they are charging me .30 insertion fee when they tell me I have 200 free per month (I only have 35 listings)...  I can't figure out how 12.35% came to $319.37  when I get $296.40 .    It's robbery!!!! I was expecting the normal 10%  $240 fee.....   I HATE THIS SYSTEM !!!  I have been on eBay since January 1999 and have watched it get more messed up over the years.  I can't tell you how many hundreds of sucessful transactions I had with just money orders in the old days.

 
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Managed Payments is more expensive than Paypal for Fashion Powerseller

Because they charge you 12.35% not of your selling price, but of the tax they collect too! SO if you sold an item for $1000 and a buyer paid 6% sales tax, you pay 12.35% of $1060, not $1000

The fact is this is ripe for a class action law suit, as ebay sent several emails stating that in most cases this would save sellers money. In reality, unless the sales tax is under 6%, it actually is more expensive. 

Here is the math:

Old System $50 Sale, 6% tax:
Ebay deposits $53 into paypal. Paypal decucts $1.84 and Ebay collects the $3 tax, so my total received is $48.16
Ebay fees on this are 10% or $5, leaving me with $43.16

New System:
Ebay collects $53 and charges me 12.35% of the total collected  or $6.55, plus an additional $0.30 for a total of $6.85
They also collect the tax of $3, leaving me with $53-$3 (Tax) - $6.85 (ebay Fees) = $43.15

Lets bump up that sale to a $1000 sale at 6%

Old System $1000 Sale, 6% tax:
Ebay deposits $1060 into paypal. Paypal decucts $31.04 and Ebay collects the $60 tax, so my total received is $968.96
Ebay fees on this are 10% or $100, leaving me with $868.96

New System:
Ebay collects $1060 and charges me 12.35% of the total collected  or $130.91, plus an additional $0.30 for a total of $131.21. They also collect the tax of $60, leaving me with $1060-$60 (Tax) - $131.21 (ebay Fees) = $868.79

 


Now on a $7500 purchase at 6% sales tax

Old System $7500 Sale, 6% tax:
Ebay deposits $7950 into paypal. Paypal decucts $230.85 and Ebay collects the $450 tax, so my total received is $7269.15

Ebay fees on this are 10% or $750, leaving me with $6519.15

New System
Ebay collects $7950 and charges me 12.35% of the total collected  or $981.83, plus an additional $0.30 for a total of $982.13
They also collect the tax of $450, leaving me with $7950 - $450 (Tax) - $982.13 (ebay Fees) = $6517.87

 

So the real question is how long before someone files a class action lawsuit, given eBay's false claim that this would save people money. 

Message 10 of 35
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Managed Payments is more expensive than Paypal for Fashion Powerseller

I know I'm also paying more I used to pay 10% because of all those silly colored shooting stars that they gave you for whoring yourself out to eBay and then they give a big song and dance how this is going to benefit everybody but it doesn't benefit me I had 10% to eBay plus 3% to PayPal and now after doing the math I'm averaging about 15 to 16% to eBay.

 

They're still the 500 lb gorilla in the room but I'm exploring other options and have already moved some of my business away from eBay.

Message 11 of 35
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Managed Payments is more expensive than Paypal for Fashion Powerseller

The higher the ticket priced item you sell - the more % Ebay takes from you. No savings when you sell trinkets. Get out your Gold & Diamonds. Ebay encourages the big boys to play their game. All the other people with their small sales should just have a yard sale.

 

Message 12 of 35
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Managed Payments is more expensive than Paypal for Fashion Powerseller

So let me get this right, what you are saying is that since ebay stated in their user agreement that their decisions are final, and the user happened to agree to the user agreement (not agreeing equals no ebay usage) then ebay can make what ever decision they deem necessary for what ever reason they choose regardless of morality or ethics? Whether or not there is an actual law on the books covering this particular behavior is irrelevant. This type of behavior is simply wrong, and ebay users, buyers and sellers alike not having any appeals process is tyranny and therefore wrong in my opinion. And for you to claim otherwise because some ridiculous "user agreement" of which signing is mandatory in order to use the site was signed...well that makes you wrong as well. Legality does not always equal justice, it is time corporate America starts to realize that. Enjoy your slide downward ebay because that is where your current practices will take you.

Scott

Don't poke the bear with a stick!
Message 13 of 35
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Managed Payments is more expensive than Paypal for Fashion Powerseller

Hi all, I just had a call with them regarding my payment and the manage payment rep told me that they way they calculated the fee the total sale including the sales tax which they keep.  I sold a 450 item and got a fee of 68.77 which is around 15..2%! my sale tax is around 8.875% in NYC.  but even if i do 68.77/490 after tax amount, its still 14%, no where near the 12.35% + 0.3 that was in the amount.  Which still doesn't make sense.  There is no transparency at all on how the fee is calculated and it ends up being more expensive than paypal where ebay only calculated a fee on the before taxes sale of 10%.   This is unacceptable practices.

Message 14 of 35
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Managed Payments is more expensive than Paypal for Fashion Powerseller

I find that the seller ends up losing alot of the shipping costs that the buyer pays for. When eBay includes shipping and handling costs to be included with the final value fee for the item sold, the seller is getting ripped. The seller has to come out of pocket to pay for shipping costs which eBay has taken. Since I have switched to the managed eBay system, I have had to come out of pocket  to cover the buyers shipping. Might as well just offer free shipping on all of your sales.

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