Chargeback--Just when I thought I have seen it all on eBay

[esg-enterprises]

So I posted several months ago about a substantial chargeback I had received. I have also had 7 chargebacks with MP in about 10 months, while I had maybe 5-6 PP disputes in 20 years.

But this one for me takes the cake.

A guy emails me his intent to return after 30 days, rather than risk a chargeback I tell him to open a return.

It takes him 30 more days to actually open a return, he asked me how and he apparently called overseas CSR and they somehow enable him to after like 2 months. He returns a different item and I deduct the 50%, my only real option these days and move on.  

Then 2 weeks ago he opens a chargeback, item not as described?? I speak to MP, how is this possible? He returned the item and the return is closed? Oh, its possible. The amount  he is requesting does not in any way match the transaction, very bazaar.  I submit info and last week I get an email that I won the dispute, no further action needed, sounds good.

Today I receive and email that the chargeback has been reopened!!! The buyer now states that he did not receive a refund and I must respond by the 5th. I call today and CSR is speechless, she is like I have never seen this before, I just vented to her and move on. I can not believe the things that are going on with MP's, it's at the point I just have to laugh.  

[rebell45]

And you're probably not out of the woods yet.

[gracieallen01]

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@rebell45 wrote:

And you're probably not out of the woods yet.

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Yeah, you tell people to cheer up, things could be worse.  So, they cheer up and sure enough, some places things get worse.

[vintagecraze50]

What I believe is that there is a huge increase in fraudulent chargeback activity EVERYWHERE, and we are seeing it here more frequently as well. Pandemic sales with contactless payments are through the roof and also the through the roof are chargeback fraudsters on the prowl. Chargebacks are 10x more frequent now. Also a little bit of info. USA chargebacks are the largest source of these. People use their credit cards here like mad and rack up so much debt it is unbelievable.

[vintagecraze50]

I know you gotta laugh, Burt I imagine the MP people are not laughing at all. They must be getting inundated with this stuff much more lately. God help them and God help us all.

[siamjane8]

Same here. 2 in 20 years with PayPal and 7 within 10 months in managed payments. Getting sick and tired of paying for no service and no protection. All the profit that we make for eBay goes into stock buybacks and management bonuses. Is it too much to ask that eBay reinvests in itself and it's sellers? Why would a seller invest in eBay if Ebay won't invest in itself. 

[esg-enterprises]

While I agree with you I also do a substantial amount of business through PP still and my last dispute I honestly can't remember, maybe 2017? and I call business line and 60 seconds its resolved.  

I certainly have not had one since the pandemic.

One of the disputes you will like is a buyer requested a cancellation, I cancel order and refund him through MP, of course.

4 months later I get a chargeback, refund not received. I call in and MP guys says there was problem on the "back end" , I love it.

He is like you can't see the transaction anymore, but trust me the refund never went through. You did it right but we messed up. I'm like trust you? So its like a $20 item and I just refund the guy, perhaps twice, and move on.

[mam98031]

This has been a real problem for some sellers, especially recently.  Where they are in MP and MP is NOT abiding by the published rules of Ebay.  This bothers me a great deal as I see more and more of these posts.

Your buyer filed the claim, scammed you the first time around, which Ebay wouldn't have gotten involved with anyway.  You did the best you could with the tools available to you and moved on.

Then your buyer BREACHED Ebay rules by trying to double dip.  They didn't like the outcome of the dispute they filed in Ebay so they now filed with their CC to try and get more money.  For that reason and that reason ALONE you should win under SELLER PROTECTION.  The buyer is the one breaking the rules here.  They did NOT appeal the original claim in Ebay, they went to their CC and filed.  That was not a mistake, that was an on purpose as it is getting to be a VERY EASY way in MP to take advantage of a seller.

And sellers aren't defending themselves properly when this happens.  The FIRST line of defense should be the BUYER is BREAKING the rules.

Lets see if we can get you some help and some better clarification of why this is happening more and more since MP is now doing chargebacks.

tyler@ebay 

velvet@ebay 

jasmen@ebay 

[jasmen@ebay]

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@mam98031 wrote:

This has been a real problem for some sellers, especially recently.  Where they are in MP and MP is NOT abiding by the published rules of Ebay.  This bothers me a great deal as I see more and more of these posts.

Your buyer filed the claim, scammed you the first time around, which Ebay wouldn't have gotten involved with anyway.  You did the best you could with the tools available to you and moved on.

Then your buyer BREACHED Ebay rules by trying to double dip.  They didn't like the outcome of the dispute they filed in Ebay so they now filed with their CC to try and get more money.  For that reason and that reason ALONE you should win under SELLER PROTECTION.  The buyer is the one breaking the rules here.  They did NOT appeal the original claim in Ebay, they went to their CC and filed.  That was not a mistake, that was an on purpose as it is getting to be a VERY EASY way in MP to take advantage of a seller.

And sellers aren't defending themselves properly when this happens.  The FIRST line of defense should be the BUYER is BREAKING the rules.

Lets see if we can get you some help and some better clarification of why this is happening more and more since MP is now doing chargebacks.

tyler@ebay 

velvet@ebay 

jasmen@ebay 

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@esg-enterprises Chargebacks are something we can't control in any way. We can monitor how many times a buyer goes that route and take action from there, but we can't prevent anything.

The best thing you can do like @mam98031 mentioned is make sure you're representing yourself as much as possible. I've said this in a few other posts too but you're only allowed to provide one document. If you can get all your facts on a word document you can upload that one page to get them as much info as possible. 

Please know if we see abusive behavior that we track it and take appropriate action always, thanks! 

[mam98031]

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jasmen@ebay wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

This has been a real problem for some sellers, especially recently.  Where they are in MP and MP is NOT abiding by the published rules of Ebay.  This bothers me a great deal as I see more and more of these posts.

Your buyer filed the claim, scammed you the first time around, which Ebay wouldn't have gotten involved with anyway.  You did the best you could with the tools available to you and moved on.

Then your buyer BREACHED Ebay rules by trying to double dip.  They didn't like the outcome of the dispute they filed in Ebay so they now filed with their CC to try and get more money.  For that reason and that reason ALONE you should win under SELLER PROTECTION.  The buyer is the one breaking the rules here.  They did NOT appeal the original claim in Ebay, they went to their CC and filed.  That was not a mistake, that was an on purpose as it is getting to be a VERY EASY way in MP to take advantage of a seller.

And sellers aren't defending themselves properly when this happens.  The FIRST line of defense should be the BUYER is BREAKING the rules.

Lets see if we can get you some help and some better clarification of why this is happening more and more since MP is now doing chargebacks.

tyler@ebay 

velvet@ebay 

jasmen@ebay 

---

@esg-enterprises Chargebacks are something we can't control in any way. We can monitor how many times a buyer goes that route and take action from there, but we can't prevent anything.

The best thing you can do like @mam98031 mentioned is make sure you're representing yourself as much as possible. I've said this in a few other posts too but you're only allowed to provide one document. If you can get all your facts on a word document you can upload that one page to get them as much info as possible. 

Please know if we see abusive behavior that we track it and take appropriate action always, thanks! 

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jasmen@ebay 

I think part of what I said was overlooked.  It should not be up to the seller to catch anything on a Chargeback that a buyer files that is in BREACH of the Ebay rules.  Ebay should let the seller what is going on after all it is their customer and their transaction, but Ebay should shield the seller, the chargeback should NOT count against the seller, the seller should not be in ANY risk of loosing any money and Ebay should handle this directly with the Buyer and their CCC because the Buyer is breaching the RULES of Ebay.

The seller should NOT be made to present a defense on this at all.  Ebay is fully aware or should be that the buyer is in breach!!!

[vintagecraze50]

Certainly Ebay has no control over a transaction gone bad when the bank, CC get;s involved. That is a well know fact, for any business dealing with chargebacks. What smart businesses do is they identify risky accounts and they remove buying privileges from  these account when a customer is repeatedly abusing the system, including the banks, and the card issuers. You do not let this kind of stuff run amok, you have a Robust dept who handle these issues with plenty of leg work for disputing these claim. You do it for the health of your company and the sellers you serve. So get tough on these chargebacks. 

[vintagecraze50]

What seems to have happened here is that the seller used their ebay protection with the 50 percent only refund on a scam return. That other 50 percent that was not returned can be challenged by a buyer using their CC which is what I believed all along with this 50 percent deductions stuff. Ebay simply cannot enforce it’s own rules with a CC chargeback. It’s impossible. So there you go.

[jasmen@ebay]

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@mam98031 wrote:

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jasmen@ebay wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

This has been a real problem for some sellers, especially recently.  Where they are in MP and MP is NOT abiding by the published rules of Ebay.  This bothers me a great deal as I see more and more of these posts.

Your buyer filed the claim, scammed you the first time around, which Ebay wouldn't have gotten involved with anyway.  You did the best you could with the tools available to you and moved on.

Then your buyer BREACHED Ebay rules by trying to double dip.  They didn't like the outcome of the dispute they filed in Ebay so they now filed with their CC to try and get more money.  For that reason and that reason ALONE you should win under SELLER PROTECTION.  The buyer is the one breaking the rules here.  They did NOT appeal the original claim in Ebay, they went to their CC and filed.  That was not a mistake, that was an on purpose as it is getting to be a VERY EASY way in MP to take advantage of a seller.

And sellers aren't defending themselves properly when this happens.  The FIRST line of defense should be the BUYER is BREAKING the rules.

Lets see if we can get you some help and some better clarification of why this is happening more and more since MP is now doing chargebacks.

tyler@ebay 

velvet@ebay 

jasmen@ebay 

---

@esg-enterprises Chargebacks are something we can't control in any way. We can monitor how many times a buyer goes that route and take action from there, but we can't prevent anything.

The best thing you can do like @mam98031 mentioned is make sure you're representing yourself as much as possible. I've said this in a few other posts too but you're only allowed to provide one document. If you can get all your facts on a word document you can upload that one page to get them as much info as possible. 

Please know if we see abusive behavior that we track it and take appropriate action always, thanks! 

---

jasmen@ebay 

I think part of what I said was overlooked.  It should not be up to the seller to catch anything on a Chargeback that a buyer files that is in BREACH of the Ebay rules.  Ebay should let the seller what is going on after all it is their customer and their transaction, but Ebay should shield the seller, the chargeback should NOT count against the seller, the seller should not be in ANY risk of loosing any money and Ebay should handle this directly with the Buyer and their CCC because the Buyer is breaching the RULES of Ebay.

The seller should NOT be made to present a defense on this at all.  Ebay is fully aware or should be that the buyer is in breach!!!

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I appreciate the feedback for sure @mam98031 and I'm more than happy to get it in the right hands! 

[mam98031]

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@vintagecraze50 wrote:

What seems to have happened here is that the seller used their ebay protection with the 50 percent only refund on a scam return. That other 50 percent that was not returned can be challenged by a buyer using their CC which is what I believed all along with this 50 percent deductions stuff. Ebay simply cannot enforce it’s own rules with a CC chargeback. It’s impossible. So there you go.

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Yes that is what happened, but the buyer is BREACHING the rules of Ebay on this.  They could appeal through Ebay if they wanted to and that would have been fine, but instead they opened a second type of claim off Ebay and that is not suppose to be allowed.  Buyers aren't just allowed to open claims via any options they may have until they hit upon one that gives them the results they want.

[mam98031]

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jasmen@ebay wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

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jasmen@ebay wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

This has been a real problem for some sellers, especially recently.  Where they are in MP and MP is NOT abiding by the published rules of Ebay.  This bothers me a great deal as I see more and more of these posts.

Your buyer filed the claim, scammed you the first time around, which Ebay wouldn't have gotten involved with anyway.  You did the best you could with the tools available to you and moved on.

Then your buyer BREACHED Ebay rules by trying to double dip.  They didn't like the outcome of the dispute they filed in Ebay so they now filed with their CC to try and get more money.  For that reason and that reason ALONE you should win under SELLER PROTECTION.  The buyer is the one breaking the rules here.  They did NOT appeal the original claim in Ebay, they went to their CC and filed.  That was not a mistake, that was an on purpose as it is getting to be a VERY EASY way in MP to take advantage of a seller.

And sellers aren't defending themselves properly when this happens.  The FIRST line of defense should be the BUYER is BREAKING the rules.

Lets see if we can get you some help and some better clarification of why this is happening more and more since MP is now doing chargebacks.

tyler@ebay 

velvet@ebay 

jasmen@ebay 

---

@esg-enterprises Chargebacks are something we can't control in any way. We can monitor how many times a buyer goes that route and take action from there, but we can't prevent anything.

The best thing you can do like @mam98031 mentioned is make sure you're representing yourself as much as possible. I've said this in a few other posts too but you're only allowed to provide one document. If you can get all your facts on a word document you can upload that one page to get them as much info as possible. 

Please know if we see abusive behavior that we track it and take appropriate action always, thanks! 

---

jasmen@ebay 

I think part of what I said was overlooked.  It should not be up to the seller to catch anything on a Chargeback that a buyer files that is in BREACH of the Ebay rules.  Ebay should let the seller what is going on after all it is their customer and their transaction, but Ebay should shield the seller, the chargeback should NOT count against the seller, the seller should not be in ANY risk of loosing any money and Ebay should handle this directly with the Buyer and their CCC because the Buyer is breaching the RULES of Ebay.

The seller should NOT be made to present a defense on this at all.  Ebay is fully aware or should be that the buyer is in breach!!!

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I appreciate the feedback for sure @mam98031 and I'm more than happy to get it in the right hands! 

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jasmen@ebay  I appreciate that, but you really don't need to bother with it as clearly Ebay does not care.  If they did, Ebay would have already stepped in and handled it by enforcing their own policies.  Ebay seems to take no issue it doing it if a seller in involved in breaching one of the rules, but if a buyer does, in a case like this, it is left to the seller to teach Ebay that one of their rules has been broken and that simply is unacceptable, but not likely to change. 

If they aren't willing to enforce the rule they should just get rid of it from the written and publish policies since it has no meaning.

Loss of coverage

Even if a transaction is eligible for eBay Money Back Guarantee, buyers can lose protection if they open duplicate claims using other resolution methods, or engage in fraudulent or abusive buying behavior.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy...

So if this isn't actually a policy Ebay is willing to enforce, then it should be removed and let the buyers have a free for all on the sellers so to speak.  Because right now unless the seller also knows this policy exists, Ebay will allow them to lose the claim when a buyer files a second one.  That is simply ridiculous and disingenuous to say the least.

In other words if the Seller is unaware of this clause Ebay will gladly overlook it too and allow the Chargeback to be process and not only let the refund happen but add insult to injury and charge the Seller $20 for losing the chargeback.   This has happened and recently as I was involved with the thread.