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Seller didn't disclose title details and failed to include all items

Hi,

So I bought a car out-of-state on ebay a few weeks ago. (Not the first time I've done it.) Everything seemed OK with the description. Seller  seemed legit with over 100 feedback at 100%. I win the bid and make contact to make payment. I set up shipping. Everything seems to be going OK to this point.

The car gets here on 12/19. No problem with the transporter and the car looks OK. However, the title I asked him to mail hasn't arrived. The second key described in the auction is missing, too. After a few phone calls, voicemails and texts, I eventually get a picture of the mailing receipt, sent on 12/21. It doesn't arrive until a week after the car does, and still no second key. I continue to call, but the seller never answers. His voicemail is always full. And he takes forever to respond to texts. When he does reply, it's essentially "I'll get it to you soon." Soon never comes.

I take a closer look at the title. The seller never transferred the title to himself after he bought the car from someone else two months earlier. This isn't always a problem, but it can be a real pain in the rear if you can't get in touch with the previous owner and if your state charges more for delayed title transfer (Texas does). This detail was never disclosed. When I finally get a response from the seller about that and the key, he doesn't answer my questions and instead asks me if I want to reverse the sale. At who's shipping expense I ask, and never get an answer to that, either.

I continue trying to get the seller to do what's right (either transfer the title to himself, get in touch with who sold him the car to work with me or reimburse me for the added costs, AND send me the second key). For a brief moment I think I have him onboard, and then he flakes out again. The person the seller bought the car from doesn't respond. At this point, I have a problematic title and no second key. Resolving these problems could cost almost $450. (The car also had some undisclosed suspension problems, but at this point, whatever!)

This is not what I was expecting, so I finally contact ebay. I relate my problems and they essentially blow me off! Inbetween quoting policy and how they want to help, they say unhelpful things like "Well, you have a title...work with the seller," and "The car's over 10 years old, what do want us to do about it?" Frankly, this isn't the response I expected. After 18 years on ebay as a buyer and seller, including cars, I've pretty much seen it all. ebay's held my feet to the fire, and the other party, too. But in this case, it appears if it isn't outright fraud, ebay doesn't touch disputes involving real property. Car sellers can pretty much put anything they want in a listing as long as they have plausible deniability.

SO, Let it be known, you can stretch the truth and fail to deliver, because ebay will just look the other way! So much for the world's most trusted marketplace.

Thanks for reading my first-ever post here. I don't expect it'll be allowed to stay up long.

 

Message 1 of 41
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40 REPLIES 40

Seller didn't disclose title details and failed to include all items

VPP is pretty much worthless.  Does'nt cover cars over ten years old. They do cover title issues but your better off trying to get it resolved with the seller. What he is doing is title jumping. Illegal. As far as the key goes, that's the least of your worries.

Message 2 of 41
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Seller didn't disclose title details and failed to include all items


@aussie-pete wrote:

The seller never transferred the title to himself after he bought the car from someone else two months earlier.  


This Audi? https://www.ebay.com/itm/2004-Audi-S4-/142613683188?hash=item2134701bf4%3Ag%3AcpsAAOSwdjdaJKyi&nma=t... Can't you just put your name as the buyer on that title?

Message 3 of 41
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Seller didn't disclose title details and failed to include all items

Yes, THAT car. (Pretty blue, no?)

The title I have is signed by the previous owner and includes a signed bill of sale. This in itself isn't a problem. The problem is when I try to transfer it to myself, I need THAT owner's signature on my state's paperwork, which is a problem in this case because I can't get in touch with him. The ebay seller should have transferred the title to himself, and then signed it and my paperwork. Furthermore, this skip and delay in documented ownsership exposes me to failure-to-timely-file penalties in my state.

Given enough time, money and effort it can be fixed, yes. That said, the seller's negligence becomes the buyer's probem, and ebay apparently won't do anything about it.

Message 4 of 41
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Seller didn't disclose title details and failed to include all items

Have you tried contacting paypal ?

Message 5 of 41
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Seller didn't disclose title details and failed to include all items


@aussie-pete wrote:

The problem is when I try to transfer it to myself, I need THAT owner's signature on my state's paperwork


That part I don't get. It's no different than if you went to Tennessee to buy the car. The seller would sign the title and a bill of sale and you would fill in the buyer section and be done. He wouldn't have anything to sign on any Texas paperwork because he has nothing to do with Texas regulations.

Message 6 of 41
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Seller didn't disclose title details and failed to include all items

Thanks for your reply.

In a bit of good news, after I added enough senior executive email addresses to my complaints, ebay's Office of the President informed they've gotten involved and are trying to get in touch with the seller. And in case they didn't already know, I let them know that what the seller's doing is called title jumping, which is illegal.

We'll see!

Message 7 of 41
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Seller didn't disclose title details and failed to include all items

The seller required PayPal for the $500 deposit, but unfortunately, the complaint route for this transaction just leads me back to VPP. In an ironic twist, the seller's infrequent use of PayPal, or at least infrequent sales, caused PayPal to flag the transaction and reserve the funds for 90 days.

Message 8 of 41
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Seller didn't disclose title details and failed to include all items

I think you're confusing the ebay seller with the previous owner. If the ebay seller in Tennessee had transferred the title to himself from the previous owner in Florida, he would have to sign the Tennessee title and the same Texas paperwork; however, because the seller never did, now I have to go to the Florida owner, bypassing the seller entirely. The problem with that is obvious. I've gotten no response despite calls, voicemails, texts and emails. Strictly speaking, the Florida owner has no obligation to do anything for me. 

Message 9 of 41
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Seller didn't disclose title details and failed to include all items

I forgot to point out that that Texas law requires the titled owner to sign Texas paperwork when applying for a Texas title. Since the titled owner is in Florida, that's who I have to get with.

Message 10 of 41
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Seller didn't disclose title details and failed to include all items


@aussie-pete wrote:

I forgot to point out that that Texas law requires the titled owner to sign Texas paperwork when applying for a Texas title. 


Never heard of that. If the out of state seller gives you a signed bill of sale, what other information does Texas want that isn't on that? And how is somebody out of state supposed to even have the Texas paperwork to sign? Maybe talk to a DMV supervisor and explain that you have a bill of sale from the seller and they are 1000 miles away and can't be reached. If you just want to getrdone, and I'm not suggesting you do this, sign the Texas paperwork in the sellers name and be done with it. Doubt they will give it a second look, they just want all the lines filled in on the form.

Message 11 of 41
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Seller didn't disclose title details and failed to include all items

Here in Texas the titled owner's signature has to go on Form 130-U. Yes, this means that the Texas buyer has to work with the out-of-state seller to apply for a Texas title. This can be a problem if the car was bought from a title-jumper or some other problematic title scenario. Of course, your suggestion is an option, LOL.

I guess things are different in your state; lucky you!

Message 12 of 41
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Seller didn't disclose title details and failed to include all items

I am sorry you have struggled with ebay motors. Please just know... you are not alone! On December 3, 2017, I contacted ebay to ask about their buyer protection plan. I recorded our conversation to prove that I was told it would be covered. Please visit this link to hear the recorded audio for yourself https://youtu.be/FTQj2sypRSU

I then contacted the buyer and asked that he place the car back on ebay and I would even pay for the buyer fees so that we had coverage should he turn out to be a bad seller. He agreed and I purchased the car for a $500 down payment that evening and a final 15,550 the following day on December 4th. The ebay item # was 322920549522.

 

In addition to these amounts which equal $16,050, we were asked for another $350 to ship the car to my daughter’s home in PA a few hours from the seller. The $350 was paid through Paypal on December 7th. When that plan didn’t work out, we were asked for another $1,000 to have it delivered to our home in CO and that money was sent on December 8th. We paid a total of $1,350 for shipping. So at this time, we have sent the seller $17,400.

 

The following is the seller’s ad on ebay.

“What we have up for your consideration today is a very rare and highly optioned 1969 Plymouth Roadrunner. this car came from the factory with a big block for Speed eight and three quarter rear Sure Grip n96 Factory air grabber. front disc brakes power brakes power steering Factory tach. this is a bucket seat and console car still has Factory 4 speed console shifter in it and Factory for Speed. this is a project car although it does run and drive go through all four gears and reverse .and stops I've actually taken it for a ride the motor is a 440 that has been freshly tuned .with new electronic distributor and cap new plug wires spark plugs oil and filter valve covers breather air cleaner radiator cap radiator fluid overflow bottle battery terminals. new air Grabber system for headlights high-beam and low-beam new carpeting chain steering wheel Hurst pistol grip shifter handle FM Bluetooth receiver floor mats .top of Dash is very nice shape. the interior looks very nice as well with new armrest I have new door inner door handles ordered should be on before end of auction car has headers and good exhaust system car also has brand new wheels and tires whole way around new lug nuts Mickey Thompson's on back Wranglers on front

If you look at the original description in the ad, you will clearly see that the seller decieved us regarding this vehicle. The vehicle we received doesn't look like that vehicle nor does the condition come close to what was listed on ebay. We were told that the only undercoating on the vehicle was original and it has been undercoated numerous times to cover the massive amounts of rust that we were told did not exist.

 

The hinges on the doors are so rusted that the doors will not open or close and the dashboard screws are rusted through and the dashboard falls off. The body of the car is nothing but bondo and newspaper is filling the caverns holding the bondo in place. The frame is cracked where the K member supports the entire drive train and front suspension. The frame rails are rusted from the inside out. Not one piece of metal on this car is free of rust or even salvageable. In addition to the large amounts of rust, absolutely none of the electrical works. This includes the headlights, wipers, tail lights, turn signals, and dash instruments. In fact, all the wiring for the entire car has been thrown in the trunk of the car. There is also a bench seat instead of the bucket seats and console listed in his ad.

 

Just to unload the vehicle off of the semi, the engine had to be sprayed with starting fluid. Once it started, smoke filled the air and the car quickly stalled. It was parked in our driveway until my husband could return home to look it over. It wouldn't start to pull it in the garage and upon inspection it is a rust bucket! It is not road worthy or licenseable anywhere!

 

On top of all of this, the seller did not send us our title! What a scam!

 

 

Since ebay clearly told us if we purchased the car through them, we would be covered if the car was less than was described in the seller's ad. They are now saying that if they can get the title for us, we will have to keep this car. We do not want it. The seller lied and should have to return every penny we have invested in his scam! I am including the link once again. Please copy and paste this link to hear the recording. https://youtu.be/FTQj2sypRSU I am listing AIA in this complaint, but really ebay motors, and the seller should also be listed. The seller is Tim Kronenwetter and he claims to be a dealer in PA. We ultimately decided to list AIA because they are the insurers for ebay motors. We want every penny spent on this fraudulent sale returned immediately!

 

Message 13 of 41
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Seller didn't disclose title details and failed to include all items


@rfosler0726 wrote:

 

Since ebay clearly told us if we purchased the car through them, we would be covered if the car was less than was described in the seller's ad. They are now saying that if they can get the title for us, we will have to keep this car. We do not want it.


This Roadrunner? https://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Plymouth-Road-Runner-/322920549522?hash=item4b2f908c92%3Ag%3AxQsAAOSwe... No purchase protection on cars over 10 years old. No purchase protection unless you have the car inspected before buying. Written policy overrides anything a phone rep may say and the terms of the PP are spelled out on the site. (And I'm not sure, but think recording a phone conversation without letting the other party know might be illegal, so not smart posting that on utube.) You buy a 50 year old car from the rust belt and it has rust? Who'd a thunk. Your daughter is a few hours away, why couldn't you ask her to check it out? Even I can see rust bubbling through the paint on both rear wheel openings. Unfortunate this happened to you and maybe if you don't get the title you could return the car, but will still have many expenses in doing so.

Message 14 of 41
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Seller didn't disclose title details and failed to include all items

I would have NEVER EVER EVER EVER bought a car of this age from the rust belt without an inspection.

 

You did.  Enjoy the $100k restoration ahead.

Message 15 of 41
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