Identify these paintings?

[lagunabeachdelivery1]

Can anybody please help identify these paintings or artists? The first one of the sailboat on the stormy ocean is signed and Humphrey. The signature is very similar to one of the many variations of Maud or Maude Bogart Humphrey, the mother of Humphrey Bogart. The painting is definitely old per one lical art expert; as is the hand carved wooden frame. It Bears no Providence or auction lineage. The next painting is signed Gentilly or Gentilli, which leaves It Wide Open. The lines in the painting and the signature style or font  bear a striking resemblance to Segovia. It is oil on canvas and you can tell it is deeply saturated and not cheap. It bears are several auction markings on the back.

[janetpjohn_la]

You can find a couple more Gentilli paintings like this online. I'm leaning towards factory art for both of these, but I'm no expert. They just look like something I would see in a doctor's office or motel room! That's definitely not the style of Maud Humphrey and her children paintings.
Janet

[lagunabeachdelivery1]

I appreciate your opinion. While most of my Maud Humphrey's work is very different from this, she did have variations of her signature and the font is very similar on this signature. Does that mean there is absolutely no way she ever painted this? As far as the doctor's office comment, you see some very nice paintings in doctors offices so I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean, or if it is intended to be a shoot down from an art expert such as yourself. The nails and canvas are very old. There are at least three accomplished painters named Gentilli spelled with an i, and at least one spelled with a y. If Christie and Skinner auction houses can't be sure how can you just lean towards Factory? I would appreciate some useful information as to how you form the opinion they are Factory. I didn't realize oil on canvas was mass produced at factories. These are not Prints. Made in China has to be labeled made in China.

[gone_4_good]

You seem to have all the information you need - and seem to believe you know who painted these - so what exactly are you asking us for?

JanetpJohn gave you their opionion - take it or leave it.

IDing paintings over the internet is a not a super accurate way to do it. People can give you their opionions, help read a signature etc but If you want to know more then I suggest you head over to a real life art appraser or an auction house.

Good Luck to you.

[maxine*j]

Because you see to be interested, just a few points:

--  Look at this link showing you the massive oil-on-canvas industry in China:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2375270/Dafen-Oil-Painting-Village-thousands-artists-recreat...

--  Many imported goods, including factory artworks, come into the country with easily removeable paper labels.

--  When authenticating a painting, the very last thing looked at is a signature.  That's because anyone can sign any painting with any name, signatures are the easiest things in the world to duplicate, and few people sign exactly the same way twice.   So style, technqiue, materials, subject matter, composition, and so on are the autheticators -- not a signature.  Some of the world's most valuable paintings have no signatures at all, but experts were able to determine who painted them.

--  After you've looked at a lot of art, you begin to see difference between factory art  and non-, and I'd say the key thing is particularity.   Nothing in the real thing is generic.  Every element is particular -- specifc and unique to one moment in time and space, and to one moment in the mind and the eye of the painter.

-- To note that something is factory art, or sofa art, or decorator art, or tourist art, whatever term you like, is not to say that it is bad or badly done or not worth hanging on the wall.   It's just not interesting or worthwhile, or as monetraily valuable, as the real thing is, even if the real thing is less well done. 

So, just a few things for you to ponder.

[maxine*j]

Make that "monetarily"...

[argon38]

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@lagunabeachdelivery1 wrote:

 It bears are several auction markings on the back.

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Can we see them?

[maxine*j]

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@argon38 wrote:

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@lagunabeachdelivery1 wrote:

 It bears are several auction markings on the back.

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Can we see them?

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I, too, would like to see them.   And I confess I do not understand the "Segovia" reference at all.   tThe sentence "The lines in the painting and the signature style or font  bear a striking resemblance to Segovia" baffles me.    I know the guitarist, and I know the city, but what am I missing?

[argon38]

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@maxine*j wrote:

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@argon38 wrote:

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@lagunabeachdelivery1 wrote:

 It bears are several auction markings on the back.

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Can we see them?

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I, too, would like to see them.   And I confess I do not understand the "Segovia" reference at all.   tThe sentence "The lines in the painting and the signature style or font  bear a striking resemblance to Segovia" baffles me.    I know the guitarist, and I know the city, but what am I missing?

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Yes, I had to Google him. I think this is the artist in question (Argentinian, son of the famous Spanish guitarist):

http://www.artoftheprint.com/artistpages/segovia_andres_still_life_shells.htm

https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/andres-segovia-1929-1996-floral-still-life-oil-217-c-sppc5tf5...

[maxine*j]

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@argon38 wrote:

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Yes, I had to Google him. I think this is the artist in question (Argentinian, same name as the famous Spanish guitarist):

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Uh, okay.  But the signature is clearly not Segovia, but Gentelli.  I remain baffled.

[argon38]

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@maxine*j wrote:

Uh, okay.  But the signature is clearly not Segovia...

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You know, that is a very good point.

[debora_34_]

Those both appear to be factory paintings.  Given the first one's frame, I would think México, not China, country of origin.  One (rough) way to identify factory art is...  it will have big visual impact but little creative effort.  For instance, big, broad, sweeping strokes that appear to have been done quickly.  

Debora

[sonomabarn67 · Accepted solution]

After 35 yrs in the antique fine arts, I would call both of these junk paintings given to goodwill after a cleanout. The ship is just bad and the dock scene is derivative and could be, as mentioned, "a factory painting". The good news for you is that I, along with all the other posters, might be wrong. There is no charge here for seeking advice and you always get what you pay for.

[lagunabeachdelivery1]

Wow I love the amazing responses. Thank you all for keeping it positive and not beating a first-time art collector  over the head too hard with some of his first purchases. Here are some pictures of the markings on the back of the Gentilly (i)? So you have taught me that if a frame is made in Mexico that the painting is garbage. That is my take away. My other take away is that nobody can tell me if it's a "y" or an "i" at the end of Gentilly and that nobody knows who Segovia was with the line style painting of ships and Docks. I greatly appreciate your expertise and feedback. While I have only sold one item on eBay, it was a $1,500 car. I look forward to the amazing feedback thank you all so much.

[lagunabeachdelivery1]

John Grossman? I don't mean to waste your time because the frame is made in Mexico.