A seller apparently scammed 129 people selling a Roku. What's my next step?

[polarblue74]

I filed a claim with Paypal who sent it to ebay for review, and all they'll tell me is the item was "delivered" and closed the case.   But what was delivered and to whom?  Let me explain.

I bought a Roku from a seller who had all positive feedback at the time.   I checked my account and it said it was "delivered" by UPS, yet the item supposedly delivered was 17.9 pounds.  Obviously not a small streaming device that weighs less than half a pound.  I told Paypal this and all they had to do was investigate the tracking number to see it was accurate information I was giving. Tracking doesn't say it was delivered to my address in particular, just to my town.   I have no way of seeing the actual shipping label to see where it was sent and from whom.

I can't even file a claim with UPS since I have zero idea what the seller's name or address is and they're responding to no one judging by the recent feedback.  Their recent feedback is all saying the same thing; tracking numbers telling them it was delivered when it never was, so the tracking numbers must belong to someone else.   There's not a single Roku feedback comment from that auction saying it was delivered, but the opposite.

Who do I contact that can make things right since ebay apparently doesn't want to take a hit for over $5000 total for the units?  Or am I just out of luck?  Did they not see all the negative feedback saying the same thing I said in this post when I urged them to check?  After over 2 decades being a buyer and seller on ebay with all positive feedback, I'm not happy at all that they'd side with this brand new scam artist and they should do more to honor buyer protection.

Just a screenshot of many recent comments left for the seller:

[polarblue74]

The last comment in the above pic goes on to say it was delivered to some random address.  They're all saying they got nothing despite a "delivered" status.

[lac358232]

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@polarblue74 wrote:

I bought a Roku from a seller who had all positive feedback at the time. I checked my account and it said it was "delivered" by UPS, yet the item supposedly delivered was 17.9 pounds. Obviously not a small streaming device that weighs less than half a pound.

I filed a claim with Paypal who sent it to ebay for review, and all they'll tell me is the item was "delivered" and closed the case.

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Unfortunately, you jumped the gun. You should have left a private message for eBay on Facebook

and you would've gotten your refund in one step. Now do the same @polarblue74 this time file a chargeback with your card issuer, and this time to get your refund.

[polarblue74]

I guess that's worth a shot.  I wasn't aware they'd do anything through facebook.

I had to file a BBB case once on a relatively expensive item I sold when ebay dropped the ball big time.  It worked out in my favor.

I really didn't want to jump through those hoops again for a $40 item, but they should take claims seriously and at least look at the information you provide instead of saying, "Welp, it says delivered. Case closed.  Next."

[downunder-61]

It ^^^^^ is worth more than a shot - FB are really on the ball, let us know how it turns out so we can advise others in your stuation.

Good Luck

[polarblue74]

Well I got responses pretty fast.

According to the ebay facebook agent, PayPal sided in my favor and I was issued a refund on August 10th.  Yet this is the message Paypal sent me and I'm seeing no evidence of a refund:

The case was closed in the seller's favor as the seller provided a valid proof of delivery.

We have reviewed this transaction(s) and are denying your case(s). This decision was made because we received shipment tracking from the merchant confirming that the merchandise was delivered.

So I'm not sure what to think at this point.  I can only believe what I'm seeing on my end through PayPal.  The facebook agent did say they reported the seller so he'll be investigated.

I'm in contact with UPS now about the tracking number.   They said they can't tell me the exact delivery address if it's not my package, but they can tell me if it wasn't meant for me.  Waiting to hear from them then see if there's anything else I can do.   

[mtgraves7984]

According to the ebay facebook agent, PayPal sided in my favor and I was issued a refund on August 10th.

@polarblue74 

I'm a fan of reaching qualified C/S Reps through the facebook page. But, this bothers me. How did your Rep know that?

[polarblue74]

@mtgraves7984  I have no idea.  I just responded to FB with the PayPal resolution center and email messages saying my case was denied and they sided with the seller.  There's zero evidence in my PalPal account activity or my online bank statement about a refund on August 10th, and the case wasn't even closed until August 13th.

The agent also said the supposed refund was $39.99 when it would have been over $42 because of sales tax.

Strange.  Maybe they mixed me up with someone else from the auction who actually got a refund?  I dunno.

[donsdetour]

"but they can tell me if it wasn't meant for me. :

You need this in written form. Then file fraud and theft with law enforcement.

What does the case you open in PayPal say???

Log into your PayPal to find out: not eBay.

[polarblue74]

@donsdetour  The only thing the closed case says in PaPal is:

"The case was closed in the seller's favor as the seller provided a valid proof of delivery."

And that was it.  No opportunity to reopen the case or respond to it again.  So I guess I'll keep doing detective work and take my findings to FB again or elsewhere.  

This is the UPS email so I'd at least have email proof that it wasn't my package when they get back to me:

I do hereby confirm the reception of your concern regarding tracking number 1Z8FY782032164XXXX. I understand that you'd like to get the information as to where this package was sent to however in case that this tracking number belongs to another customer we are unable to disclose the information related, this restriction provides protection against potentially fraudulent modification of a package. I can provide you an email that will provide that this package isn't addressed to your address but first, can you please provide your name and complete delivery address?

[katzrul15]

@polarblue74 

I would call paypal @ 1-888-221-1161 (or 402-935-7733) and see if you can escalate your call to a supervisor.  Typically, I have found Paypal's assistance via phone to be most helpful.  Good luck to you.  No idea how the Seller could scam so many without e-Bay stepping in sooner.  

[polarblue74]

@katzrul15  I may have to do that.  Still waiting for proof from UPS that it wasn't my tracking number.  

This auction happened really fast and hopefully the seller's really being investigated at this point.   I'm sure I'm not the only one out of 129 people to file a claim.

[katzrul15]

Good luck.  I too hope e-Bay is looking ito this so no additional Buyer(s) are affected.

[mudshark61369]

@polarblue74,

  "I filed a claim with Paypal who sent it to ebay for review, and all they'll tell me is the item was "delivered" and closed the case".

Go to the resolution center button at the bottom of most ebay pages.  If PayPal referred the claim to ebay, for a decision it should show up there.  If it does not, then PayPal is who decided the claim. Both companies probably decided your case by using their automated systems which only checks a tracking number for a Delivered scan.  eBay may have removed your Money Back Guarantee protections for the transaction, because you filed a dispute through PayPal first.  The proper order for filing disputes is ebay > PayPal > Card provider. 

What you have fallen victim of is a fake tracking number scam.   Calling UPS will not get you all of the info needed to change the decision. Their customer service reps may tell you the shipping label was not sent to your address, and the package size/type/weight, which you can compare to what you should have received.

  "Who do I contact that can make things right since ebay apparently doesn't want to take a hit for over $5000 total for the units?"

You can appeal both an ebay and paypal decision, but you may need to do some leg work before you file an appeal.

Go to your  local Post Office, UPS or FedEx store and bring proof of you being the recipient, eBay Order Details and Purchase History pages w/ the tracking number on it.   If you used a phone/tablet etc. for the purchase bring that, or print copies of those pages if you used a computer.

  At the store ask the clerk to compare the shipping label info address, package type/size/weight to the Order details info. They cannot give out specific information, but they can write a note on company stationary  saying things like; the shipping label's address does not match yours, and if applicable that the package type/size/weight. doesn't match what you should have received. 

The note needs to be signed and dated by the clerk and give the store#.

With that info you can file an appeal. When you do there will be a place to upload documentation, a clear photo or scan of the note.  Appeals are looked at by real people and the info you provide will cause you to win.

The links below tells you how to file appeals through ebay or PayPal.

https://www.ebay.com/help/buying/returns-refunds/appeal-ebays-decision-return-missing-item-buyers?id...

https://www.paypal.com/us/smarthelp/article/can-i-appeal-paypal%E2%80%99s-decision-on-my-claim-faq20...

  "I bought a Roku from a seller who had all positive feedback at the time".

Did you actually check the seller's feedback profile page or just go by their feedback percentage.  You may have bought from a hi-jacked account if:

• All of the seller's feedback was over a year old except for 1 or 2 purchases in the last 6 months or year.
• The seller may have had feedback for selling from over a year ago, but not for the type of item you purchased.
• The seller had a new account and sold other non related items before listing the streamers.
• Feedback for their earlier sales were mostly from low feedback number buyers.

They listed the item with a below trending price. (which from the screen shot) they apparently did.

If you even had a twitch about the item having a too good to be true price, you should have done more checking, if you bought thinking the money back guarantee would protect you from a scam, you underestimated how clever scammers are. They know how to get around buyer protection policies.

Neither ebay or PayPal will accept an email from UPS as proof of non delivery since those can be faked.  Calling the PayPal number provided earlier may work for you since it has been said that a PayPal phone rep can check with UPS to see if the order address and label addresses match.

[polarblue74]

Good info, @mudshark61369 .   I did check the feedback itself before purchasing and again after I got the delivered message.  Nothing is negative aside from the Roku auction.    The feedback I left was also deleted after I filed a claim.

I'll go to the UPS store this week and request that information.   If all else fails and I end up having to go through the BBB, would I make a claim against PayPal or eBay in this case?   Or both?